MILLIE WINKLER
TEACHERS IN ALEXANDER

April 1, 1980


 

(Names and other words that could not be transcribed exactly are in italics. Unknown voices are referred to as ďmanĒ or ďwoman.Ē Comments, explanations, and additional names are in parentheses.)


 

Jane Dudley: This is April 1, 1980 and we are meeting on Pocomoonshine Lake in a 1910 log cabin - a group of people of the area who are interested in preserving the history of Alexander and Crawford and surrounding areas.


 

First Woman: Our first interview this afternoon will be with Ethel Wallace who was born in the area. Ethel, where and when were you born?


 

Ethel Wallace: I was born January 9, 1916. Ralph McArthur and Linnie, my parents.


 

First Woman: Where - where did you - where did you live?


 

Ethel Wallace: I lived in Alexander until I was married in 1936 and I moved to Crawford.


 

First Woman: And, who did you marry?


 

Ethel Wallace: We lived - we lived on - Herman Wallace and I lived on the Wallace homestead, the top of Lydick Hill in Crawford.


 

First Woman: And the - the Wallace homestead - do you know when that was first - when your husbandís family first moved to that area.


 

Ethel Wallace: In 1911, they moved from Alexander under the hill which was the old Lydick place under the hill. They moved up on top to the Davis place.


 

First Woman: Ethel, what are some of the earliest memories that you have of Alexander?


 

Ethel Wallace: Well, my school days for the most part.


 

First Woman: Where did you go to school?


 

Ethel Wallace: We went to school in what - what was called the Hale School at that time and is now the fire building - fire hall. We always went back and forth to dinner because we didnít live too far from the school house. And, in the winter time, why we could slide from the school house almost down home.

First Woman: Do you remember the names of any of your teachers?


 

Ethel Wallace: True Varnum was my first teacher, and of course I was very active when I was small so I wanted to see everything that was going on. Well, the first two or three days that worked all right. He let me go look out the window, but after that he informed me that I had to stay in my seat. Roma Varnum, his daughter, used to teach us special reading and how to count and everything and then I had - - -


 

First Woman: You - you had one teacher at a time.


 

Ethel Wallace: Right.


 

First Woman: In the school - how many - about how many children were there in the school?


 

Ethel Wallace: All the way from 25 to 30 - all nine grades.


 

First Woman: Un -huh.


 

Ethel Wallace: There was - in the early days there was George Morrison, Wallace Hanscom, Marshall Berry, Margery Dwelley, Nola Simmons. Thatís all I can remember of the teachers.


 

First Woman: And, you - you said you went home for lunch. Did other children have lunch at school?


 

Ethel Wallace: Oh, yes. They brought their dinners and had their lunches at school.


 

First Woman: Did you have water in the school?


 

Ethel Wallace: No, we had a big container with a faucet.


 

First Woman: With a faucet?


 

Ethel Wallace: Faucet on the container.


 

First Woman: Oh, where - the school where I was we had a bucket and a - and a, you know, a sort of ladle - a dipper.


 

Ethel Wallace: Oh yes.


 

First Woman: Yes, a dipper. That was up at the four corners which Iíll talk about later. What about school in the winter?


 

Ethel Wallace: Well, we always had a vacation after Christmas and didnít start up until spring vacation. That was a nice time for me because I got a chance to come up to my Grandmother Cousinsí and spend a couple weeks with her.


 

First Woman: That was nice. How long was the school year? How long was the school year.


 

Ethel Wallace: The school year used to be 30 weeks and we had to go to school nine oíclock in the morning, an hour out at recess, and go home at four oíclock in the afternoon.


 

First Woman: Good. Ethel, what about dress at school? You wore dresses and did you wear - Jane wanted to know if you wore bloomers.


 

Ethel Wallace: No, just the kind that didnít show until I went to high school in Woodland and then we had uniforms - blue serge bloomers and white blouses for our gym suits. In those days we didnít have slack suits.


 

First Woman: Oh, that would have been disgraceful. What about - what about the playground, Ethel? What games did you play?


 

Ethel Wallace: Oh, we played about everything with the boys - baseball and the sack race and the three legged race and marbles and one time I remember we were playing out by the side the road with a convex face of a flashlight and set a fire.


 

First Woman: Oh, every child - every child in Alexander, I bet, has done that because they - they did that at the school where I was.


 

Ethel Wallace: You hold that right down there and that was hot enough.


 

First Woman: Yes.


 

Ethel Wallace: On the grass.


 

First Woman: Yes, I believe - - -


 

Second Woman: What was that you were holding?


 

First Woman: Convex lens from a flashlight.


 

Second Woman: Oh.


 

(Tape stops and starts again)


 


 


 


 

First Woman: I have been asked to tell a little bit of my experience teaching in the Alexander school. I taught at Alexander in the year 1923-24 and at that time I was 16 years old. In order to give a little background for this I think it might be well for me to tell something of the experience that I had had to prepare me for this teaching. I had graduated from Calais Academy in June of 1923 and in those days people had just begun to finish high school unless they planned to enter one of the professions. Since I couldnít enter one of the professions, I had always thought that I would like to be a teacher, and during the four years at high school I had planned to take the college course. And, since it was very evident that I was never going to be able to go to college for financial reasons, I was encouraged during this time to switch from the college course to the commercial course since everyone said what are you ever going to do when you get through school if you arenít prepared for - to be a stenographer or to work in a store, and since Calais is - Calais offered limited opportunities for young ladies at that particular period 1923. I changed to the commercial course and actually it happened - as it happened, this was the best thing I might have done to prepare me for what was to follow because I had in my course biology, commercial arithmetic, commercial geography, an excellent course in commercial law which helped me all of my life, I find. And, although this wasnít my choice, it - it worked out as it happened for the best at that time. I did miss later the languages that I might have had if I had continued with it - if I had stayed with the - the college course. Now, as I graduated, what was I going to do. There were no secretarial jobs being offered at that particular time, but during the - my years at Calais Academy, we had often lunched at Leo Phelanís little store next to the Academy. And, as I told someone and they laughed, you could buy a pickle for three cents and crack - two crackers for two cents so this was most often our lunch when we had a short recess at school. And, Leo Phelan had always been very friendly with us as students and he had offered me a job in his store. I was to get $8.00 a week and of course Iíd have car fare because I would have to ride the street car because the store was two miles from where I lived and at that time it cost seven cents on the street car. As a student at Calais Academy we could get 30 tickets for a dollar to ride as a student but after graduation you would have to pay the full seven cents. I was debating after school had finished - after I had graduated I was debating on taking this job. Now, I didnít have very much choice and other jobs didnít pay much more. But one evening about five oíclock a strange man appeared at the door and he said his name was Mr. Beard and he was the superintendent of schools in the Alexander-Crawford-Cooper area, and the superintendent of schools in my own area had referred him to me. He needed a teacher at the Four Corners School in Alexander and he thought that I might do. As we talked he discovered that I was 16 years old and it seems that this was all that was holding up the application that I could - my experience was enough - being a high school graduate was all that was required but the State of Maine did require that you be 17 and I wouldnít be 17 until the following March. But since the need was great and the time was getting late for the following fall, and evidently he had had difficulties before finding teachers for this school, he decided we could - this could be overcome. He could get a special certificate for me to teach and this evidently was done because I heard later from him and it was all set that I was to teach at the Alexander School in September. In September - I donít remember how I got out to Alexander. It was 18 miles from Calais and at that time, the family had a car but I donít - I just donít remember getting out there. I just remember being there. And, I was to room at the home of Harry Frost and Harry Frost and his wife were - they - two of the then prominent citizens. He was the first selectman and the road commissioner and I donít know what else, but it seemed that it was a place where many of the - especially the men in the community collected in the evenings and in their big kitchen which was the main room of the house - gathered there in the evenings so that I learned a great deal about Alexander and its people while I was teaching there. Mrs. Frost had been a Perkins and her sister lived down the - her brother had a family and lived down the road a piece as they say in Maine, and several of her - his children were to go to the school that I attended. An older boy had been in the high school ahead of me. Vinal had been in high school when I was in high school. Otherwise I knew nobody in Alexander except the Varnum girls who had also gone to school - in high school but ahead of me. Come Monday morning I started up over the hill for school and you can imagine the fears that I had never having had any experience whatever and no training whatever and I arrived at the school and found that the young man who was supposed to open the school and sweep the floors and take care of the stove when the - when the cold weather came on and fill the water bucket was already there. His name was Strout. I donít remember if it was Hazen. He was one of the Strout boys, anyway. And, the room - the room was clean and absolutely bare. I looked around to see - first for the records to see what I was - who would be coming and what I would be responsible for and there were no records. There were two closet like rooms as you went in the front door - one on each side and - and - and on the left hand side was the book room and there were text books in there but nothing else - no paper, no pencils, no pens, no - anything except a little chalk and the text books. The other room was the cloak room. I went to the desk and nothing in the desk - no records - not a sign of what - what children I would have - what grades the chil - children would be in. So I thought what do I do next. I waited but not long because the children began to come and they were as curious to know what I was going to be like as I was to know about them. And, everyone was eager for the first day of school. And, I was not so eager at this point. However, I knew that the best thing to do was to follow a routine as if everything was all right. And, the children came in and found their places and if it - if the children hadnít been as intelligent as they were and as used to this kind of school, I donít know what I would have done, because they led me rather than me leading them that first day, I can tell you. After they were all seated in the places they had chosen and the desks were screwed to the floor and each - each desk and bench held two children and at the front there were the seat that would be - that would be in front of the desk behind was at the front so when I wanted to bring children up front for a reading or for anything special we used these front seats. And, each desk contained the two ink wells - one for each desk, but of course there was no ink and no supplies of any kind. I began questioning the children and as I talked to them I was very interested in - in them because of a peculiarity. The majority of the children had brown eyes and I was so used to blue eyes that it was fascinating to me to see all these brown eyed children - every shade of brown from the darkest velvet to amber. And, I wasnít too scared to - to note this, thatís for sure. As we talked, I - I asked what grade they were in and they would tell me and they had grouped themselves according to their grade, each one eager to move up a step and knew exactly where his seat was going to be the next - this coming year. So that I found I had 37 pupils and nine grades and I wondered what I would teach this ninth grader. She had completed school but was not able for financial reasons to take advantage of the fact that the town paid tuition at either Prince - at either Woodland or Calais for high school, but the parents had to be responsible for their board so that there were many children then, and much later, I understand, in Alexander who did not finish high school who might otherwise have done so. We found the text books and we decided that we could have - I decided that we could have reading, writing and arithmetic, that was for sure, but reading and arithmetic, but no writing, I should say. We started off with the Lordís Prayer and I thought we would sing a patriotic song. The Lordís Prayer started off fine but in the middle of it I discovered that I - my mind was a complete blank. I couldnít remember the rest of the Lordís Prayer but the children carried on beautifully without me and I found that as the days went by the children very often picked up where I left off so that I could depend on them when I couldnít sometimes depend on myself. We had a lovely day and it came noontime and they explained their routine to me and they had brought their lunches and I had been told to bring mine so that - that Mrs. Perkins had - Mrs. Frost had prepared a - a lunch for me and we all ate our lunches outdoors and had a lovely time. I learned later that discipline had been a problem in this school. For the year, I must say that I donít remember having - ever having a discipline problem the entire year. The children couldnít have been more cooperative. And, I had one or two little mischievous boys that I especially liked and Hazen Strout was one who I - I used to watch and wonder what he would think if next like tying his shoe strings with the boy across the aisle hoping that as I came down the aisle he could - they could pull the string up and maybe trip me. It didnít work but they tried it. Jane has just asked me what the months were that I taught school. I taught from September to Christmas and then at Christmas time the school closed because of the snow and came back the following March until the middle of June so that the year was approximately 30 weeks as I understand. I donít remember exactly that it was any special number of days but I imagine that it was - there was a certain number of days, probably 152 as later on it was 180 but at that time in the State of Maine I think it might have been 130. My biggest difficulty as I began to teach was how to teach a child to learn to read. I had two first graders and this - this and my ninth grader - these were to be my problems. My ninth grader was interested in history and I was interested in history so we had a little extra American history. I could teach her a little algebra but there was no algebra book there. I remember later getting a book for her and doing a little of this. I canít remember what else that I might have given her but I remember with the little first graders that reading was just beginning to get to the point where children were learning to read phrases rather than select - picking out individual words and sounding out individual words, but I also remembered in my elementary school days listening to first graders saying in concert the vowels over and over and they sounded like - as - every time we went to the rest room Iíd stop in the hall and listen to them. They sounded like pigeons cooing. Oo-ah-eh-ah-oh and so forth. And, so, I thought well, Iíll do both. And I spent many evenings at home making phrase cards, later on after I got some supplies, for these children and with the phrase cards and with the cooing, we somehow or other - the children learned to read. In fact they learned to read so fast that we went through our reading books so fast that the end of the year they were reading in third grade readers and I didnít know any better and later on as I thought it over, I was very glad I didnít. In arithmetic they also moved as fast as they did in their reading and so they learned their basic facts in addition, subtraction and multiplication so that by the end of the year they could add and subtract two or three columns of figures and sometimes there was no point in a fourth column. Later on when my own son was in school I often wished that heíd been able to have the experience of having an inexperienced teacher because he spent one long boring year in the first grade rolling his pencil adding the basic single facts. They couldnít go on to decade facts until the second grade so that he spent one long boring and almost got to the point of hating arithmetic by the time he was at the third grade. These two little children were Cousins, Harold and Berra Cousins and their mother had had some experience teaching so I canít take all the credit for their - their advancement because Iím sure she would have put them at home especially on teaching them and their facts and working with them with their reading book which they took home with them. But, I felt very pleased with them. I must say that this year and the school at Alexander was one of the most dissatisfying years I have had in my whole life and after earning three degrees and teaching for 20 - school for 20 years I still look back with pride on this year in Alexander and I like to think my enthusiasm and my pleasure made up for all the lack of experience.


 

(Tape stops and starts again)


 

Woman: Iím about to ask Jack Dudley who is a former judge in Calais a few questions about his experience in Alexander since he has practically lived on Pocomoonshine Lake, that is at every opportunity he had since he was a small boy. Jack, when did you first come out to Pocomoonshine Lake? Approximately how many years - - -


 

Jack Dudley: (indistinct words) was in 1909 on a buckboard with a pair of horses, but I donít remember too much about it. But, I do have a picture that was taken of me on that day.


 

Woman: Well, weíll have - some day youíll have to show us the picture. Perhaps we can use it in some of our publicity. Oh, here it is. Oh, you were what six months old?


 

Jack Dudley: Just about.


 

Woman: Is that your father holding you? Good. You were very beautiful at that point.


 

Jack Dudley: Thank you.


 

Woman: Jack, when was the cabin that we are now in built?


 

Jack Dudley: About 1910.


 

Jane Dudley: And who built it.


 

Jack Dudley: Fellow by the name of Arthur Middlemiss did the work. Came from out back of St. Stephen.


 

Woman: Uh huh. I remember the Middlemisses in St. Stephen. Who built this - was it your grand - your grandfather?


 

Jack Dudley: My father had it built.


 

Woman: Your father.


 

Jack Dudley: My father.


 

Woman: Your father had it built. How many families were living out here in this area when your father built the cabin?


 

Jack Dudley: There was nobody living on the lake itself except Fred Harriman who lived right over here at the corner in the house which is now occupied by Peter Sears, the dentist, and incidentally, Peter Sears is the great grandson of Fred Harriman. No. Yes.


 

Woman: Did he - how many - how many were living out on the road?


 

Jack Dudley: Then when you went up the Pocomoonshine Lake Road, the first house was the old Carlow house where Charles and Lucretia Carlow lived. The next house up on the same side, which would be the west side of the road, would be the house that was occupied by Charles and Evie Cousins. Next above that was the McArthur home which was occupied by Robert McArthur and his family. That takes you up to the corner.


 

Woman: Then there were three families living on the road. How many children did these three families have?


 

Jack Dudley: The three families probably averaged about ten - at least ten children to each household. There was a minimum probably of 30 children that were raised in those three houses.


 

Woman: Isnít that amazing! But, still large families were common at that time.


 

Jane Dudley: Jack, what was it like when you came out here as a young boy? How was it different from 1980?


 

Jack Dudley: Well, the main thing is that most of the trees that are still standing have grown much larger. Of course there was no electricity. Electricity wasnít brought down here until 1949. So, all your water was carried, and I did the carrying of the water. There was very little sports fishing, so called, on the lake.


 

Woman: Jack, could you - you drink the water in the lake at that time?


 

Jack Dudley: Oh, yes, the water in the lake was perfectly pure, and the water in the lake was perfectly all right to drink. However, my mother didnít approve of it so I had to carry the water from - drinking water from a spring. There were two springs, one over back of Louie Adamsí place and the other one over just beyond Fred Harrimanís house. And I would alternate whenever I felt like it - whichever direction I wished to walk.


 

Jane Dudley: Well Jack, today you - even now you go and take water from the lake and drink. Do you feel the lake is as pure as it was then?


 

Jack Dudley: I think the lake is perfectly pure. I donít hesitate to drink from it now. I will say that - that the - that although there was very little sports fishing on the lake - we didnít have any public sporting camp here, however the lake was fished quite heavily commercially by Fred Harriman and a number of others. Some of them sometimes - Fred Harriman and his son Arthur fished every summer and sometimes there would be another - an extra one fishing and then there were two or three people from Crawford Lake who also fished commercially. They fished for pickerel, yellow perch and white perch. These - they went out every day in canoes. There were no outboard motors in those days. They fished with a hand line and also with a cedar pole on which there was a large hook and a piece of pork rind. They used those for skittering. And, the fish were - every night they returned and came in to a fish hut, so called, which had an ice house behind it and the fish were removed from the canoes. Incidently each canoe had a box in it and there was a cake of ice in the box so the fish when they were caught were put right on ice. When they came in at night, the fish were removed one at a time and wiped off and put on the scales and weighed - one of the old balance type set of scales and then the fish were packed in a large box inside the fish house. The fish were packed in layers and in between each layer of fish they - ice was chipped over them. And the fish were shipped about once or twice a week depending on how many they had.


 

Woman: Where were they shipped?


 

Jack Dudley: The fish were taken out of the large box, put into smaller wooden boxes and again put in between layers of ice and maple leaves were put on top and those boxes of fish were taken by a horse and wagon into Woodland where they taken in so theyíd catch the train that left Woodland and those fish were in Boston the next morning - went by train from Woodland.


 

Woman: Now what years did this cover?


 

Jack Dudley: That would cover about from the earliest I can remember down to approximately the latter part of the 20's - 1930s - 1930 was the season.


 

Woman: In other words there was no commercial fishing after - after the early 1930s.


 

Jack Dudley: No commercial fishing after that.


 

Jane Dudley: Jack, what about wildlife? Was there more wildlife in those days than there is now?


 

Jack Dudley: To start with wildlife, we will take the one that the Fish and Game Department have put up on a pedestal - the white tail deer. Prior to the middle 1930s there were very few deer. There were deer here but they were not plentiful. About in the middle Ď30s Scholl McGregor Corporation built a spool bar mill on the shore of the lake. Scholl McGregor owned about 5,000 acres in this area. It was land, most of it, that had been burned over very severely back in the 1870s and Ď80s, and they were summer fires that had gone right down and killed everything. And, when this land grew up it came into white birch and at the time Scholl McGregor started to operate here, there was a very, very large amount of beautiful white birch - very large. I measured one that was over in the mill yard one day and it was 36 inches in diameter.


 

Woman: Diameter?


 

Jack Dudley: 36 inches in diameter, but the bulk of them would run 20 to 23 or 4 inches. Just single trees. They werenít in clumps. They didnít grow from roots - suckers - they grew from seed . They were beautiful. They started operating. They planned to be here for six of seven years until they cleaned out the birch but they stayed here for about ten years because there was an ample supply. And, of course other people here who owned land also sold birch to them.


 

Woman: You said spool bars, didnít you?


 

Jack Dudley: They manufactured spool bars.


 

Woman: What are they?


 

Jack Dudley: The spool bars were all made out of white birch. There was some yellow birch used but 99 percent of it was white birch. The bars were sawed out four feet - 52 inches long and they were square bars that ran from about an inch square up to two inches square.


 

Jane Dudley: Were they for sewing thread?


 

Jack Dudley: These bars were then stacked here as they were sawed in the winter and the next summer the bars were transported to a spool mill.


 

Woman: Where was the spool mill?


 

Jack Dudley: I think - I donít remember whether it was at Mattawamkeag or Dixfield. Those were all transported by truck to that mill down there where they were manufactured into spools on which thread was placed. That was the old type wooden spool. Now as a result of their operations - their cutting of this hardwood, it resulted in a lot of sprout growth coming up, and of course the sprout growth is the favored food of the white tailed deer. And as soon as that started within a year or two or three, the deer here started to increase. And, the deer - during that period the deer increased to such a point in this area that a person could go out hunting and take their pick of the deer in a matter of a couple of hours. Unfortunately the word got out and in a matter of two or three years every Tom, Dick and Harry in the country was coming in here. And, the deer population declined. Some of - most of them hunted legally but some of them did not and then as time went on the deer population started to drop back down because the browse was gone and the deer population now - we still have deer here but they - they are not plentiful.


 

Woman: What about the - the fir and spruce - what did come up after the cutting of the hardwoods?


 

Jack Dudley: Well, when this hardwood was cut the conifers - the spruce had already started to come up through because the spruce would be the climax growth. The spruce came up - when they cut the hardwood, the spruce was probably 10, 12, 14 feet tall underneath. When they cut the hardwood, it released the spruce because of - the cut took off the cover that was over - the crown and that spruce grew fast enough so that land has all been cut over since for the spruce and also what white pine there was on it. There is today at the present time a very good growth on it of spruce. Spruce regenerated.


 

Woman: Jack, I remember hearing of the English coming over here and them cutting certain trees for the masts of ships. That, it seems that they were - the trees were tall and straight and heavy enough and Maine - the New England area anyway was very - did a very good business with these, I understand, in the early years. Was any of that done here?


 

Jack Dudley: The trees that youíre talking about that were cut for masts, they were white pine, the best, the straightest and the tallest and the - they sent out an agent and the agent went into the woods and marked these trees and nobody was supposed to touch any tree that had the kingís broad arrow on it. I doubt very much if there were - that this ever took place in Washington County or perhaps even in Penobscot County because at the time that the English were after the - markin the trees for masts, up in this country, there was nothing here. It was still a - nothing but a wilderness and there were ample pine in the - lower down in the state in the Kennebec Valley in the southern part of the state to take care of it. It never reached this part.


 

Jane Dudley: Jack, I know you have come across cellar holes in the woods and also have found fragments of pottery in your garden and also have pointed out to me when Iíve been with you in the woods old stumps that you said were pumpkin pine. Could you comment on those?


 

Jack Dudley: Well, the earliest settlers, as far as I know, probably came out here in the early 1800s. And, of course when they came, probably many of them were squatters, and no they didnít have a deed. They just went in and dug a cellar hole and probably the first house they put up was log, but when they did come, of course they brought with them some of their household utensils. Now, I have found a lot of broken dishes in the - up here where I have my garden and those have been examined by - been examined by an expert and the date that was placed on them was around 1810. I also found a bayonet in my garden which has been identified as a Revolutionary War bayonet. Now probably the fellow who brought that gun came here - he not necess - he didnít necessarily have to be a Revolutionary War soldier. His father could have been and the gun was passed down because guns were passed down from generation to generation. You could dig around - of course around - around these old cellar holes - they didnít go very far in those days. They didnít have a public dump and they - of course they didnít have much stuff they threw away because they had to make use of everything. They didnít throw things away the way we do today. And, what little stuff they had was usually discarded somewhere quite close to the house and of course these people who are interested in these old dishes and old bottles and whatnot - those places probably have been ransacked 100 times by somebody hunting for that stuff.


 

Woman: And also it might be that thereís an occasional isolated cellar somewhere that we might find. I also know that after the Revolution that there were people who promoted land in these areas and the veterans - my Revolutionary ancestor used the money that he was paid after the Revolution - they werenít paid during the time and later on got their pay, and as he - he used his pay to buy land in Robbinston. This man Robbins had bought up this track of land down there and thatís how Robbinston was first settled. And, so somewhat the same thing may have happened in this area. I wonder if that might be true.


 

Jack Dudley: Well, I suspect probably it would be true. The - of course the Commonwealth of Massachusetts - perhaps I should say the Massachusetts Bay Colony claimed title to all the land as far as it went all the way up north and all the way to Canada and nobody knew where the line was at that time. And, they acquired this land theoretically by conquest and by treaty with the Indians and then after the Revolutionary War, Massachusetts being very active in it and Massachusetts not having any money and having spent all their money, they sold off these huge tracts of land, and a gentleman by the name of William Bingham is the person who acquired several large tracts - three extremely large tracts in the State of Maine and two of them were east of the Penobscot and one of those, the lower Penobscot property included most of Washington County. So all these towns here in Washington County - most of them - perhaps those not right on the coast but those inland were owned by William Bingham who later became Lord Ashburn. And, Bingham sold the land to Alexander Baring. Alexander Baring is the one who became Lord Ashburn and the present town of Alexander and the town of Baring in here originally were owned by Baring - Alexander Baring and thatís where these two towns got their names.


 

Woman: Hum. I often wondered - - -


 

Jack Dudley: Then of course it came down from there - various individuals - they would sell a whole township to two or three proprietors and then it would come down - then finally - most - most of those that are settled, why had been broken up in their own - various people now. But, the old original townships, the unorganized ones, many of them - the whole township is still owned by one corporation and that title would go right straight back to Alexander Baring, William Bingham, and then to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Personally that some of these people were - came in - the early ones were squatters. They were called settlers. They came in. They marked off - they accepted a lot that had been run out - 160 acres, a half mile square and they built a house there. They lived there. Their children lived there and when you trace the title in the registry of deeds on some of those lots, you cannot find an old deed. That is because the original fellow never had one. Now, one town here in Washington County - it was owned completely by one of the proprietors and it later came down into the name of Peter T. J. Talbot of East Machias. Crawford Township, he owned the whole township and when he purchased it, it included the whole township. However when he sold it knowing that there were 10 or 15 or 20 settlers on there who had gone on there and cleared the fields and built the houses - when he sold he reserved the settlers lots to the settlers.


 

Woman: I have read in - even in some fiction on - about Maine, that some of the proprietors did this. Jack, do you have any idea what land sold for in those days by the acre or by the - or by a farm lot or anything of that kind? Do you remember from the old deeds?


 

Jack Dudley: If my memory is correct, when Fred Harriman bought this land here - township - lot number 18.


 

Woman: How big would a lot be?


 

Jack Dudley: Well the lot number 18 would contain 160 acres. However, part of it was under water and still is, but he paid $80.00.


 

Woman: For the 160 acres. That was about a - a farm lot in - in those early days.


 

Jack Dudley: That was in the 1890s.


 

Woman: Yes. Jack, there was a farm on the Charlotte Road. We had a little farm - a little 15 acre farm we used to drive out to - to where we raised hay and had a garden and so forth and animals - called the Brookdale Farm on the Charlotte Road and that always seemed to me such a - a beautiful place as I knew it as a child which would be 60 - 50 or 60 years ago. And, I wondered as I came back to the area it had completely - it was all part of, I think, the Moosehorn - do you remember anything about the early days of this farm?


 

Jack Dudley: I can remember where it was and I can remember that Bill Stuart had a place out there - a place where later on a fellow by the name of Langeloh lived.


 

Woman: Yes, thatís - thatís it. The Langelohs, when I was - the extra (indistinct word) Yes


 

Jack Dudley: And, Bill Stuart had a place up on the other side of the road, up where the present headquarters are. And, I can remember that my father bought that piece of land from Bill Stuart and the blueberries - but he didnít realize that blueberries had to be taken care of and burned. He thought he just bought the land and went out and raked the berries. But anyway, he finally


 

(End of tape)