John M. Dudley
the Ď20s

September 1985

(Names and other words that could not be transcribed exactly are in italics. Unknown voices are referred to as ďmanĒ or ďwoman.Ē Comments, explanations, and additional names are in parentheses.)

Jane Dudley: Meeting of the Alexander-Crawford Historical Society. (People talking in the background.) Yes, I had a great view. Jack, you have to talk loud enough. (Woman talking in background.) All right, youíre on. Would you like to start? Mr. Dudley?

Jack Dudley: (Indistinct words) You got that thing turned on?

Jane Dudley: Yes.

Jack Dudley: First thing Iím going to mention - now Janeís talked about in the Ď20s - which was quite a few years ago. Sixty years ago, I guess. I looked back in some old books I had and I found a few snapshots which were taken in the 1920s which I thought I would simply pass them around and people could look at them. They are - they show three things. Now this first picture was taken right out in front - right out here looking toward the lake. It shows a red pine about six feet tall. A picture of my mother standing beside it, Louise Haycock and Louie Beckett sitting on the ground. That was in the 1920s. That tree out there now is probably 16 inches in diameter.

Jane Dudley: Everyone can stand up and look.

Jack Dudley: Thatís what it looked like in the 1920s. This next picture has nothing to do with Alexander or Crawford. This next picture is a picture taken on the St. Croix River just below Calais in the 1920s. How many of those do you see today? This next picture was taken in the winter probably in late February or March - taken right out in front here looking toward this building shows back in those days we had snow which we donít have any more. The two people in it are Steve Haycock and Louie Beckett. In the 1920s. Now hereís a picture here taken in the 1920s right down at the foot of the cove - down here. It might not mean too much to people who are not native here - not experienced with what took place at that time. This is a picture of the woods operations. Back in those days in the Ď20s they went into the woods in May probably or the latter part of April as soon as the sap started getting into the trees. They cut the trees down - spruce and fir. They limbed - they limbed them out - left the bough - left the branches on the top - left the top on and then they peeled them. Peeled the bark off right where they lay. They remained there until fall. The green tops helped pull out the sap and moisture out of that tree. And then they went back in and they sawed the pulp wood up into four foot pieces and piled it and it stayed there until the snow came and when they could go in with horse sleds and haul the stuff out. This is a picture of what you would see in the woods at that time in the winter. You canít see it today. They go in now with machinery as big as this building and a tree that is standing in the morning is in the Georgia Pacific yard in here in the afternoon. This next picture is taken right up here on the lake road looking toward the lake. Harold and Hazel Dwelley live in the house now. At that time an old man by the name of Thomas Blaney lived there. And, when I looked at that I said thatís a good picture to show, because you could stand right where I was when I took that picture and look down the road and you can see the lake - practically the whole of the lake, and you can see all of Orin Hunnewellís farm buildings up here where Mel lived and where now Mike Hunnewell is living. You go up there today and stand there, you canít see a thing. Forest. Trees have grown up. You canít see it. (Indistinct word) Now, these last two pictures will be of interest to people who fish. The first one is a picture of some brook trout. It shows you what you could catch in those days - brook trout right here. Now, the second picture is how you could do with a couple days ice fishing in the winter. You can go out here and fish for a week and youíre lucky if you see a dozen (indistinct words). The fishing has changed greatly as has the woods in places where they have not been disturbed. Many places today here in Alexander and Crawford nothing but woodland and forest and back 60 years ago it was cleared land. Fields and pasture land. Another thing that has changed in my memory and back to the Ď20s (people talking in the background) - another thing that has changed a great deal - the inhabitants. Back in the Ď20s the older families were living in all the houses. Today you go along - I do not know who lives in half the houses. If you came out the Alexander Road into Alexander, the first place you came to was the Barnham farm right there on the right. Earl Barnham lived there and they raised a family there. The family I guess is pretty well all gone now. I guess the closest one is Bert, lives in Woodland - one up in Aroostook County - somewhere there (indistinct word). But that house the past several years has been occupied by people who moved in from the outside. And when you came down and came up over Watskehegan Hill, first house I remember up there at that time - but it wouldnít be until you got up there at the top of the hill - but on one side, a Clinton lives there now. It belonged to his mother and father and my memory is - did Scribner live across the road then?

Two Women: Unh huh. Yes.

Jack Dudley: Scribner lived across the road. Thatís now - the -(indistinct word) is still there but the old Scribner house is somebody who works at the mill in Woodland - got a horse farm there. Milton Hunnewell lived there for a while. Then you come down over the hill. There used to be a place down there at the bottom and I canít remember who lived there. MacArthur lived there later on.

Several Voices: Lloyd Frost. Lloyd Frost.

Jack Dudley: Then you come up this way, next house up there as I remember where Freddy Wallace now lives was a Perkins lived there. Of course Freddy is a native although he probably (indistinct words)

Man: From way off.

Jack Dudley: The next place is Frost - thatís where McDonald lived. Up there on the top of Laneís Hill if my memory is correct there was a Craft.

Woman: Perkins.

Jack Dudley: Lester Craft, didnít he live there?

Man: Um hum.

Woman: Perkins lived there before that.

Jack Dudley: Perkins was there before that?

Woman: Uncle John James Perkins.

Jack Dudley: And, down in the hollow where Varney lived and Lewis Craft was there. And, you come up the hill and another Craft on the left.

Woman: That was Uncle Ernie.

Jack Dudley: Seems like there was another house on the left where Joyce is. Iíve forgotten, now

Man: George Simmons.

Jack Dudley: And you get up to the top of the hill and you had Will Strout on the right hand side and Walter Strout on the other side.

Jane Dudley: That was Stroutís Corner?

Jack Dudley: That was called Stroutís Corner.

Jane Dudley: Thatís right up here.

Jack Dudley: Those are all gone. You came down this way - - -

Woman: David Frost lives in where McVicars live now.

Jack Dudley: Yes, right on the corner. Yes, first house. You came down, down, down and you came to where Tom Blaney lived, where Harold and Hazel live these days. Down - Oren Hunnewell used to live there where Light lives now. Bob MacArthur was across the road.

Woman: Used to be a man named Hanneford.

Jack Dudley: Then in behind and up above.

Jane Dudley: There was a Jones in there, wasnít there?

Man: Jones was Maryís father.

Jack Dudley: Bob MacArthur and then there was a Charlie and Evie Cousins and then there was Charlie and Lucretia Carlow lived up here. And Fred Harriman lived over here, I think. Yes, Fred was there. Itís all changed as you go along and try to think back. Probably a lot of you people here could have a much better memory of it than I do.

Jane Dudley: How many children? How many children?

Jack Dudley: By my memory, in the first three houses there were 36 children.

Jane Dudley: Isnít that amazing?

(Laughter and several people talking at the same time.)

Man: And no television either.

(Laughter and several people talking at the same time.)

Woman: (indistinct words) over to my grandfatherís farm. I didnít know how many cows there were. (Several people talking out of range of the recorder.) (Indistinct words) each family lost one at the - at the school there - that diphtheria or whatever it was.

Man: Diphtheria.

Woman: Diphtheria.

Second Woman: That was unusual.

(People talking in the background)

Woman: So thatís how come Iíve got so many relatives.

Jane Dudley: (Indistinct words) related to everyone around here.

Jack Dudley: Now, Iíll turn the meeting over to Pliney.

Jane Dudley: Did he say everything?

Pliney Frost: What did you leave for me to say?

Jane Dudley: Heíll think of something.

Woman: Tell them about the way you used to do things.

Man: Yes.

Pliney Frost: The way I used to do things?

Jack Dudley: (Indistinct words)

Jane Dudley: Well, you and everyone else.

Pliney Frost: Well that reminds me that about 1923 - in the winter of 1923, I had the scarlet fever. And of course, I was a very bratty child as I continued to be for the next 60 odd years. Well, I kept everybody in the house up all night long and somewhat worried I guess about my well being, and the next day I felt a little bit better and there was a lot of snow on the ground and a crust on top of the snow and here I was outdoors running down the snow in my sock feet. Thatís one of the earliest things that I can remember. I might tell you a story that has been told to me over the years. Jack mentioned Thomas Blaney and Charlie Cousins It seems that Tom Blaney was to dinner at Ed Cousinsí at one time and Edna, which was Charlieís wife, - and Ed was bragging about what a nice well she had. Well, Tom said, ďYou see, I sell more water, Ed Cousins, than you use.Ē Thatís because Tom made a little home brew back in those days. Late Ď20s and early Ď30s. Jack mentioned also that there was a number of large families that lived on this road from the four corners to the lake, here. One he didnít mention too much about was the Bohannon family which was a total of twelve children born to Manny and Bertha Fitch Bohannon. The youngest one of them was born in 1921 which most of us are natives remember as - her name I believe was Emma. Of course, there are - - -

Jane Dudley: Pliney, could you talk a little louder? We donít want to miss anything.

Pliney Frost: Oh, I can scream bloody murder if you want me to.

Jane Dudley: Yes. Oh, sure.

Pliney Frost: About the same time, probably the following summer after I had the scarlet fever I remember visiting in the home - very briefly - of John and Jane Perkins. Letís see, if I remember correctly that would have been Murielís husbandís grandfather. He was at that time a man in his eighties and my - my only other recollection of him was that I attended his funeral about a year later which was held at his daughter-in-lawís house. And, in 1925 I recall watching from the house window the passing of the funeral procession of Rhoda Bailey Strout Perkins. That takes in just about all the names of the local families there was at the time. She was in her late eighties. And, of course you can recall in those days farmers around about traveled from Alexander to Calais whenever necessary or whatever other place they went. Princeton, Charlotte, or I suppose on rare occasions to Machias or Eastport - it was all done in summertime by horse and wagon or nearly all. The Model T Ford of course was in vogue in those days. In wintertime it was done with sled and horses. I can remember hearing the bells on the horses in the late hours of the evenings as they went back and forth. So, I guess that would just about cover anything that I might have to add to what - - -

Jane Dudley: So you were just a little baby in the Ď20s.

Pliney Frost: Incidently, I was born in 1920. Some of the other ones I might tell you that was born in the same time frame. Walter Perkins was born in March of that year. Arlene Perkins MacArthur - now I believe her name is Osgood - was born in April. Royce Cousins was born in the same year. Maury and Marjorie Howellís first born - a set of twins - in September and Alberta MacArthur, Ethelís sister, was born, I believe, the first day of September in that year.

Jane Dudley: Did they have a pound here at that time?

Pliney Frost: A town pound? I do not recall. I know where it was but when it ceased to function as a pound, I couldnít tell you that. Iíve studied quite a bit of the old records and I see very little in the selectmenís records that says anything about the town pound if thereís anything at all.

Jane Dudley: Are there any questions? Anyone wants to ask Pliney anything?

Jack Dudley: Pliney mentioned the - going by horse in the picture there of the pickerel. Youíll notice that there was a moose horn up in one corner of it. It was a home made sled.

Jane Dudley: We have one on our building that Jack made.

Man: I was just wondering was it - was it (indistinct word) or the same one?

Jane Dudley: No. No, he made this one.

Jack Dudley: At that time the roads here were not plowed in the winter. In the spring, they were nothing but mud when the (indistinct word) came up. And, when we came out here on that particular time, we loaded that moose runner in Calais and we took it down to the railroad station and we got on the train in Calais and we went to Woodland on the train. Took the thing off there, put on our snowshoes, or had our snowshoes with us and we walked from Woodland out the South Princeton Road, up into MacLellenís Corner, down onto the lake and came down the lake on the ice. Thatís how we got here. Thatís the way we went back.

Jane Dudley: And in the summertime, before you drove the Model T Ford, you rode your bicycle out here.

Jack Dudley: Oh yes, I used to come out here on the bicycle in the summer.

Jane Dudley: He came out every chance he could get. He always wanted to live here year round. Now he does. (Man speaking at the same time canít be understood.)

Woman: You were saying that the tree out there was just a small tree and now itís a large tree. I have a picture that was taken up at camp when my grandfather was alive and he passed away in 1922, and I think it was a commercial photographer that used to come around the lake and take pictures of various camps and it said Dr. Simonís camp. And, in front of the camp are two very large pine trees and they donít look as if theyíve grown any - - -

Man: In 60 years.

Woman: In 60 years. Well, I - I - you know, when I see your little one and itís grown into a big one and then we have this big - it sits right on the lake - - -

Jack Dudley: Thatíll be poor soil.

Woman: Iíll say. I think itís just about rocks, you know.

Jack Dudley: Well these two out here - one you can see right there and thereís another one right beside it. I have a picture of this camp here which was taken I believe in 1910 or Ď11 when the camp was first built. These are those trees then. They havenít grown up that much in the last 75 years.

Jane Dudley: Isnít that strange.

Man: Thatís funny, isnít it?

Second Woman: What size were those trees?

Other Woman: Oh, they were about this big around.

Woman: They grow very slowly when they get so big, donít they?

Third Woman: Could it be - could it be the photography? Could it be that - - -

Woman: No.

Jack Dudley: No,

Woman: No. You can tell - - -

Man: You can tell by the height and the diameter. The height is still there and they are still about as high as they are now.

Pliney Frost: Probably - probably the trees are mature. They just - probably (indistinct words).

Jane Dudley: Were they pruned to keep them short?

Jack Dudley: No.

Man: Oh my gosh, no. Theyíre not short.

Woman: Oh no, - no, they must be 60 feet tall.

Jack Dudley: You take this black spruce that grow on the (indistinct words) It ainít that big. Maybe ten feet tall. But, you cut one down and count the rings in it, the thingís 100 years old. Thereís no sustenance in the bog muck. They grow there, but - - -

Man: We - we had - - -

Jack Dudley: They donít get any size.

Man: We had a hemlock last year which broke off. And, the hemlock was about what - about that big in diameter. And, I just - I didnít go down and count every ring, but I just went quickly - it just took me ten minutes. I think that was maybe 150 - 60 - 80 years old, something like that. You know, it was really old, you know. It may - it may have been 200 years old because you know when - some of those - some - within a half inch sometimes there must have been 25 rings or more and then sometimes you would get some years a lot of rings. And then sometimes they would just be all packed in there so tight. Itís amazing.

Jane Dudley: Those were the hard years.

Jack Dudley: They say they can take those and tell what the weather was. You take your black spruce out here on the Baskahegan Marsh (indistinct words) grow for years and years and wonít get any bigger than that. That same black spruce growing on a ridge somewhere - beautiful timber. (Indistinct words)

(People talking at the same time - canít be transcribed.)

Woman: I have some old pictures, too, of the original dam down at Meddybemps and - - -

Jane Dudley: Those would be good, too. That would be fine. Anyone who has any old pictures or articles for the news letter. People find these very interesting. Itís amazing - just a -just some simple little thing and it triggers, you know, in memories.

Another Woman: Jane, Iíd like to do in our historical society that article that Jack wrote for the watershed association. I think itís fascinating. I think you should put that in.

Jane Dudley: You think I should put that in?

Another Woman: Yes, I do. Iíve been trying to give it around to quite a few people, and I - - -

Jane Dudley: Yes, ok.

Another Woman: Itís very good.

Jane Dudley: I - I have all sorts of things I wish heíd write, but - - -

(Several women talking at the same time - canít be transcribed.)

Woman: (indistinct words) watershed association? They have a watershed?

Another Woman: Yes. Uh huh.

Jane Dudley: With the lake - - -

Another Woman: Yes, Alexander-Craw - - -

Jane Dudley: Itís three years old.

Another Woman: Alexander-Crawford Watershed Association. And, we - it was formed because the dam down at Crawford needed repairs. And - well they were having a little trouble with finding out how to do it. So, all the land - all the people on the - on the lake, the landowners, plus those who would like to contribute and we now have - do you remember the name - the band number - 200 - 2200 and something - a certified band that belongs to the association? And last year some of those men went down and repaired the dam.

Jane Dudley: One of them was Audreyís husband - worked real hard.

Another Woman: And (indistinct words) then there were actually - what - four that worked on it? Lynn Wallace brought in - hauled - used his truck, and - - -

Jack Dudley: And Bob Frost

Jane Dudley: One more.

Jack Dudley: And Don - - -

Jane Dudley: Whoís the other?

Another Woman: Lawrence Ford and Don Harris (speaking the same time as Jack Dudley - neither can be transcribed) The non-intelligent work.

Woman: What went wrong because they wanted to fix the dam so that the eels would still - they could still trap the eels. That was what - was one of the things that made it hard.

Jane Dudley: They almost werenít able to come up.

Woman: It surely has made a difference, hasnít it. We have kept our level this year.

Jack Dudley: Oh yes, the water has stayed (two or three people talking at the same time) Matter of fact, last spring it was too high.

Woman: That was part of (indistinct words)

Another Woman: We have a problem. (Indistinct words)

Man: A difference of - the swing will be maybe 36, 40 inches.

(Several people talking at the same time - canít be transcribed.)

Man: But, itís only - itís too low.

Jane Dudley: You have an association over there, donít you?

Man: Yes, right.

Another Woman: But, we have no control over that.

Man: We have no control over the dam. The fisheries does it because of the Dennys River and the salmon fishing. So basically all we do is just let the water run straight out. I mean they - they open up the gate at a certain level and I donít think they ever change it the whole season. Maybe they do. I think years ago they used to, but I donít - - -

Other Woman: Does that stop the salmon from coming up the river?

Another Woman: We very seldom have salmon in the lake because the lake is so shallow.

Woman: Gosh, there used to be good salmon in there.

Another Woman: Yes, but - - -

Jack Dudley: In the river, yes.

Woman: In the river.

Another Woman: In the river, but not in the lake. The lake has only one or two places that are 40 feet and thatís just a minimum.

Woman: Theyíre going - theyíre going to fix them. Theyíre going to try and stock one of those lakes, either Pleasant Lake or - or Meddybemps Lake with salmon. What good is it going to do? Theyíll go right down the river.

Jane Dudley: I think it was Pleasant Lake, wasnít it?

Another Woman: Well, I think if they stocked Pleasant Lake. Some of them would probably get in there.

Pliney Frost; Theyíd put - theyíd put a screen in Pleasant Lake, wouldnít they?

Woman: Oh! Darn it!

Third Woman: I wouldnít doubt it because the lake is - is deeper.

Another Woman: I just donít think that Meddybemps can really support those kind of fish. I may be wrong, but - - -

Jack Dudley: Itís not a salmon lake.

Another Woman: Itís not a salmon lake.

Jack Dudley: I caught a salmon over there once in Weaverís Cove. That was in the Ď20s.

Another Woman: They used to get them there every once in a while.

Jack Dudley: Salmon weighed seven pounds and a half. I know where it came from.

Jane Dudley: Did Jack ever tell about - - -

Jack Dudley: It came down from Dwellyís - we used to call it Dwellyís Lake then. Itís Pleasant Lake now.

Woman: Pleasant Lake, yes.

Jack Dudley: Pleasant Lake, that is, Dwellyís Lake, at that time had been stocked for a number of years and they had excellent results. And the lake was screened. They had to stock the lake because there were no natural spawning areas. But, I can remember going up there to Dwellyís Lake in the afternoon in May and June after school got out in my old Model T Ford. Going out on that lake and fishing until dark and youíd have three or four salmon weighed three or four or five pounds a piece.

Jane Dudley: And, what happened to them, Jack?

Another Woman: The dam went up. The - the - - -

Jack Dudley: Somebody - - -

Another Woman: The road (indistinct words)

Jack Dudley: Oh no, this happened years ago. This was years ago.

Jane Dudley: Jack was stocking the lake.

Jack Dudley: There was a gentleman by the name of Dwelly discovered that they could lift up the screen. They had the mill pond down there all closed up. The salmon would run down into the mill pond. Then they would push the screen back down, and then they would go down and very carefully drain the water out of the mill pond and then theyíd take fish forks and get two or three sacks full of salmon.

Jane Dudley: Isnít that awful?

Jack Dudley: And, take them up to the house and fix them up so theyíd keep all winter. After they discovered that - who was it - George Llewellyn, I think. I know because I was the one that put fish in there. I was just young but my father was the one who put fish in there. After he found out what happened to them, he - he lost interest in it and he started going to - to West Grand.

Jane Dudley: Jack used to - Jack used to go to the train and get the fish. Put it in - at night, and put it in his Model T Ford and somehow - and tell them how you dipped it and how you put the fish in the water.

Jack Dudley: Well, those - probably ten gallon pails. They came from the federal hatchery, I think, up at Orland..

Woman: What size were they?

Jack Dudley: They were land-locked salmon and they were - - -

Jane Dudley: Just little tiny.

Jack Dudley: - - - fish probably about that long. Fingerlings. The top of the can had a sieve on it and they put a piece of ice on it. The ice melting and dripping down in, I presume, was supposed to keep the water cold. They always arrived in good shape. When you got those out of the car and carried them down to the shore, you had to have the temperature in that can - in the bottom of that can the same as the temperature in the lake, otherwise the difference in the number of degrees if you dumped them right in would kill them. So you had to pour out a little bit of water out of the can, take a dipper and replace it with lake water. You had to keep on doing that - - -

Jane Dudley: Night time.

Jack Dudley: - - - until you figured they were practically the same temperature. And, then you took the can and you didnít just dump it. You walked along and dumped a few here and a few here and a few here so you spread them out. The cans were a lot lighter when they were empty, too.

Jane Dudley: And, then - and then after that when your father found out this was happening thatís when he bought the place up at Grand Lake Stream.

Jack Dudley: Thatís when he went and - - -

Jane Dudley: And moved his operations up there. It must have been kind of frustrating.

Woman: My gosh they didnít do anything with them? After they found out what they had done with those fish?

Jane Dudley: No, his father - his father didnít do a thing.

(Several people talking at the same time. Canít be transcribed.)

Jack Dudley: I imagine Harold Dwelly could remember it.

Jane Dudley: Jack, tell them - - -

Jack Dudley: Everett could but heís not here anymore. I doubt if Will would remember it. He was a little too young.

Jane Dudley: Tell them about the man - I donít know if you did - who - Jackís father was really wonderful. He was quite a humorist and an understanding man - about when he drove in here one day and someone was up on the ladder. Did you ever hear that story?

Jack Dudley: We came out here in the winter one day - must have been an open winter. We drove out in the car. Some winters we had were open. We got out here and there was another car in the yard, and there were three or four people were fishing - ice fishing. And, he got out and looked over here and here was a ladder up to this window up here and this fellow half way through the window. And, he recognized him. He was a dentist in Calais, Dr. Holmes. Clayton - Clayton Holmes. Clayton used to drink a little occasionally - kind of do things he wasnít supposed - He was a good man to (indistinct words) And, my father lit into him, told him to come down. He said, ďTake this ladder back, and put it where you found it.Ē He closed the window. ďNow,Ē he says, ďCome around, I unlock the front door and you come in the way youíre supposed to.Ē So, he came in and built a fire and the rest of them (indistinct words).

Jane Dudley: Maybe you could talk about - a little bit about the lodges next door.

Jack Dudley: Well, that was the first - - -

Jane Dudley: And about the chauffeurs who drove the ladies to the park picnic.

Jack Dudley: Oh, no. Thatís getting too far. That place over there, I think Louie Edwards came there in about 1907 - seven or eight. Previous to that heíd been in Belgrade. He didnít like down to Belgrade because there were too many people coming in - too many camp being built so he came up here. He bought that piece of land over there from Fred Harriman and he built the first camp which is now the main camp. The camp consisted of just a small log building. When youíre inside there you can see the original logs. Then Louie got married. When he got married he added a little frame part on the back of it for a kitchen. He also built the next two camps which were little - originally those were just the same. Then he put in a Delco system - 32 volt system. He had a big gasoline engine there with a water pump on it. He had a water tower there where the old garage was. And, so he could pump water with his gasoline pump, fill that tank. He had electricity in his camps - 32 volt. He next added bathrooms to his next two camps, put in running water, and the first camp was his and his wifeís. The next camp was the guest camp. The original camp was the dining room and kitchen. Boat house was down on the shore. Wood shed in the yard there. Two guide camps. When he was going full blast there, he had four people working for him - two men and two women. (Indistinct words) Tail end of it, he - things quieted down, why he only had - well he had Roy - Roy and Lina Hunnewell worked there for him. Then about 1919 he built the furthest camp down. That was the living room camp. Thatís the one had the fireplace in it. I can remember either Harold or Clarence worked for him then. Then of course after he died Pond bought it - - -

Jane Dudley: But, Jack, he had - - -

Jack Dudley: - - - Pond - - -

Jane Dudley: He had guests come.

Jack Dudley: Oh, yes.

Jane Dudley: These were all his friends, I think.

Jack Dudley: He had guests come.

Jane Dudley: Yes. He didnít rent out or anything. It wasnít a business thing.

Jack Dudley: Oh no, it was a private camp. Then Pond bought it, and the three further camps stayed just about the same but the main original camp there, well Pond had it rebuilt - had the siding put on the outside and built out and had it enlarged and what not.

Jane Dudley: Thatís still here for Mrs. Pond. Sheís down in Florida, I believe in Florida.

Jack Dudley: Thatís Bartís wife. Thatís not - - -

Jane Dudley: His sonís wife?

Jack Dudley: Yes.

Jane Dudley: Oh. Oh. Ok.

Jack Dudley: Mrs. Bart - Alice, she - she died.

Jane Dudley: Was it the Ponds who gave you the Canton china?

Jack Dudley: Hum?

Jane Dudley: The Canton china you have over there. The Ponds gave you. Thatís the last ones.

Jack Dudley: Now to get - do you want to shut that off? Is it still going?

Jane Dudley: It probably clicked - and probably missed most of it. (Recorder turned off.)