FOSTER CARLOW, JR.
INTERVIEW

August 7, 2005

(Names and other words that could not be transcribed are in italics. Unknown voices are referred to as ďmanĒ or ďwoman.Ē Comments, explanations, and additional names are in parentheses.)

John Foley: All right. This is John Foley and this August 7 and Iím just doing a test here. Let me see how this works out. Ok, letís get started again, here. This is John Foley and this is August 7, 2005 and Iím at the home of Foster Carlow and Iím going to be doing an interview. So, Foster what we need to do is we just usually start talking and you can tell us a little bit about your background and your family and Alexander, if you want, and how you come to be in this place.

Foster Carlow: Well, my name is Foster Carlow, Jr. I was born September 9, 1964. I was born and raised in the area - never left home - raised on a farm. We had blueberries, woods. Went to the local schools, Alexander K through 8. And I went to Cal High School for four years, 9 through 12, and I attended the W.C.T.I. in a couple programs - in automotive, welding and personal finance. And, Iíve worked mostly around - after I graduated from high school I went to V.T.I. in automotive and then I went from there to Ransome Chevrolet and I worked at Ransome Chevrolet until 1990 and then from 1990 to Ď93, I worked at Beacham Mobil in Eastport as a mechanic and since then Iíve been basically on my own doing mechanic work and farming and we still have blueberries and the woods and I do work for the Town of Alexander and on the family, I was raised at my grandparents all my life, Floyd and Ethel Hunnewell.

John Foley: Floyd and Ethel Hunnewell. Ok.

Foster Carlow: Yes. Yes. Born and raised here and my parents, Foster Carlow, Sr. and Virginia Carlow, both from town, local residents. And, Iíve got two sisters. Vicky Carlow, which is in North Carolina - in Jacksonville and my other sister, Bonnie Peakall, lives in Eastport at the moment. And, right now weíre - weíre getting prepared to start blueberrying - tomorrow.

John Foley: Tomorrow.

Foster Carlow: Tomorrow.

John Foley: A little late this year, isnít it?

Foster Carlow: Yes, because of the wet weather and stuff so we start tomorrow so Iíve been getting geared up for that and ready so I get my monthís vacation.

John Foley: Oh, yes. So, how much blueberry land do you have here?

Foster Carlow: I have about 100 acres of ground. I do half one year and half next.

John Foley: Oh, I see. Ok.

Foster Carlow: So I can split it up and I have about 400 acres of land all together, fields, woods and - - -

John Foley: Oh, thatís a good piece of land. Now, is that all right here?

Foster Carlow: All here in Alexander. But, I have this lot here. I have the Ray Bohannon place in town.

John Foley: Now, where is that? Is that down on the Davis Road?

Foster Carlow: Off the Arm Road. Itís across from Magoons. Actually itís not too far from your place.

John Foley: Oh, yes. I was thinking itís - itís in back there. You know, yes.

Foster Carlow: Actually itís right where Eddie - Eddie Perkins has the yellow house over here in that field - little yellow house. Well, my - my line borders it.

John Foley: Ok, now your line is on this side of it? Or the other side?

Foster Carlow: Other side.

John Foley: Oh, is it?

Foster Carlow: You walk down - - -

John Foley: On my side.

Foster Carlow: Yes.

John Foley: Oh, thatís interesting. And how big a piece is that?

Foster Carlow: 80 acres.

John Foley: 80 acres. Now is that woods - is that mostly woods or - - -

Foster Carlow: Half woods and half blueberry fields. You can see Meddybemps Lake and Pleasant Lake.

John Foley: So I could walk through the woods from my place and get to it, I suppose by just heading - - -

Foster Carlow: Thereís a - thereís a trail that comes right out by Dave Holtís, in that field behind him.
 

John Foley: Oh yes. Yes. Oh, ok.

Foster Carlow: Weíve got a four wheel trail (indistinct word) that goes through there.

John Foley: Iíve never been over there. You know, I ought to take a walk some time.

Foster Carlow: Itís an awful pretty spot. You can see all around Cooper Tower, (indistinct word) Hill, Calais, St. Stephen lights at night.

John Foley: Thatís called (indistinct words)

Foster Carlow: (instinct words) farm.

John Foley: Whatís - whatís the connection between you and the Bohannonís - that youíre a descendant of them, huh?

Foster Carlow: Well, Iím not sure exactly. Some - some relation through my grandfatherís side - on my mother - motherís side of - and John, of course, would know more on that.

John Foley: Your grandfather was a Hunnewell?

Foster Carlow: Floyd Hunnewell.

John Foley: Floyd, yes. Ok.

Foster Carlow: He was always - from town - always worked back in the old days in the woods mainly.

John Foley: I remember his name. Iíve heard his name a lot. And so he used to live right here in this house?

Foster Carlow: This is it. I believe his father built it.

John Foley: Oh yes. You donít have any idea how long ago. Of course it was way back.

Foster Carlow: Iíve been told 100 to 130 years. I mean it has been added onto.

John Foley: Yes, yes. Well, Iím going to have to take some pictures because what Iím trying to do is Iím taking pictures of the old places and trying to figure out what it was - would be like 100 years ago, back then. So if you see me some morning out here with my camera, Iím just taking pictures of the old place, just to - - -

Foster Carlow: Help yourself.

John Foley: Yes, take it back and you know, take a lot of cedar shingles and, you know, make it all look like it would a hundred years - of course the road, I suppose is about the same. Huh?

Foster Carlow: Yes, the road is the same and from what I was told the old school across the road was - where the old school used to set - - -

John Foley: Oh, yes, I remember that.

Foster Carlow: - - - was dragged over here and put on for one piece of that ell shape - itís supposed to be from the old school. Just old pieces built on and built on. U beams and everything else is all - all really old

John Foley: Pretty interesting. Now, letís see - so youíve always - basically, youíve always lived in this spot except - now, when you went to Eastport, did you live down there?

Foster Carlow: No, I traveled.

John Foley: You drove back and forth.

Foster Carlow: No, Iíve lived here all my life. No, this is where I was actually born and raised like with my parents and my grandparents and their two kids, my aunts. Actually my grandparents had three kids - three daughters and one had one child. Louise had Dwayne, the one boy. Louise married a Griffin. Ella and Richard Howe, they had two children. One was a boy and one was a girl. And then my mother had myself and my other two sisters, Vickie and Blanch.

John Foley: And your motherís name was what again?

Foster Carlow: Virginia. So, both parents always worked so we were always raised in our grandparents house, the six of us and when you were old enough to move home and stay alone, you had your choice of staying there or staying here. And, my cousin and myself - Dwayne - we both chose to stay here. My two sisters moved home and my two cousins moved home.

John Foley: So, where - whereís Dwayne now?

Foster Carlow: Right now heís in Florida. He joined the service when he was 18. So, he went to Germany and heís been over in Kuwait - in the Middle East and everything.

John Foley: So, his name - his last name is?

Foster Carlow: Griffin. But, right now heís still active in the service.

John Foley: Oh, yes. Ok. So is he staying in the service for a career or is he - was it three years or four years.

Foster Carlow: Oh, no. Heís been in for a long time. Heís been in and out. Heís been in the regular service. Heís been in the Guards and then when they had - this last war come up, he got called back full time so he stayed in. Heís been in and out between the - the National Guard and - and the regular Army.

John Foley: It gets to a certain point and you figure you might as well make it 20 years, you know. But, again, with a war on and you figure your odds might run out, you know, and some people get out (indistinct words)

Foster Carlow: Well, I guess from what he said he wanted to get out this last time, but they said they had, I guess, six years to call you back in case of war or something.

John Foley: In case of emergency.

Foster Carlow: Yes. So, he really didnít want to go back this last time but he was already - planned on going - staying in the Guards. And, then got called back - so if you get called back - you might as well stay in. But, if heíd had his choice he would have stayed out.

John Foley: Well, have you ever thought about going anyplace else? (Indistinct words) What do you like about Alexander? There must be a lot of things, I guess, if youíre here.

Foster Carlow: Well, I was never used to traveling - never cared to travel. Usually if I traveled somewhere it was because you had to. And, I always liked it around here, liked the people. Mainly worked and just done what youíve always done and thatís what Iíve always done.

John Foley: Yes. Yes. No reason to go anyplace else.

Foster Carlow: But, I mean, yes, if you paid my way to go to Florida or whatever, no thanks.

John Foley: Yes, Iím the - Iím the same way.

Foster Carlow: Matter of fact, like my aunt and uncle did - Louise and Ray Griffin, they - they moved to Florida in Ď78 and been there ever since and every year they offer me to go down with them for free, stay with them. They have jobs all lined up and when you want to come back weíll either take you or send you back for free. And, you can live with them for free. No charge for anything and no thank you.

John Foley: Well, I mean Iím the same way. I like this place. And, I wasnít born here. I came here but I donít - I really hate to go to Bangor to tell you the truth. Calais is bad enough. But, I mean - I donít know - some of us like to stay home. Other people want to wander all the time, you know.

Foster Carlow: I donít mind being active and doing stuff. I even enjoy the snowmobiles and water bikes and stuff, but as far as just going on a regular vacation to Florida or California, whatever, no thanks.

John Foley: Sit around in a hotel and feel stupid. Thatís what I do. I - I - I always - thatís what I - what do I do on vacation? Entertain yourself, somehow. Go to see the sights, you know. So the blueberries - is the blueberries the main part of your - your business of just a - just a - - -

Foster Carlow: Oh, a good part - a good part.

John Foley: Itís a good part. Yes, yes. And - and the firewood, do you do that - do you sell firewood or do you sell lumber or logs or - - -

Foster Carlow: I used to sell firewood. Now, itís going to the mills.

John Foley: Ok, so youíre selling wood for the mills.

Foster Carlow: Because, I mean, this place here - my grandparents really didnít sell a lot of wood off of it - really didnít want it cut and it probably hasnít been cut in 60, 70 years and itís getting to the point where itís going to die. Some of it has already started and within five years if you donít cut it, itís going to be gone. And, the last two years, the price of wood went sky high like gas, so itís time to cut it. So, select cut and cut what has to be cut. Some areas you have to cut more heavy because itís all like poplar is starting to die or stuff thatís got broken top limbs so you have to. But, Iím not into clear cutting and wanting to destroy the land. I want to hang on to it and keep it up and within ten years youíd never know probably that it had been cut. But as far as just going in and stripping it and destroying it, no.

John Foley: So, do you do the work yourself, or do you have somebody come in or how do you - - -

Foster Carlow: I do some myself and I have some hired out that I canít do. I have a guy come in with a skidder and pulp cut.

John Foley: I notice youíve got a road here. This is the old - what do they call it?

Foster Carlow: County road.

John Foley: County road, just like the old - - -

Foster Carlow: We always called it the old Cooper Road.

John Foley: The old Cooper Road. It goes that way, anyway.

Foster Carlow: Thatís what I was always taught, but it was actually the old County Road. It was actually the old County Road but they called it the old Cooper Road because that was before the regular Cooper Road and the Davis Road.

John Foley: So, if you wanted to get to Cooper, you had to go over - over Breakneck Mountain? Is that the way that would go? Or not?

Foster Carlow: This one goes right by where Peter Stears used to live.

John Foley: Yes, yes. Ok. So, then you pick up the Arm Road and go around to the old - the other - the real (indistinct word) road.

Foster Carlow: And like - a lot of people donít - donít know what youíre talking about when you say The Four Corners in Alexander but years ago this was a four corners, because this was actually the route that is the driveway.

John Foley: Oh, yes, so that would have been - yes, ok, (indistinct words)

Foster Carlow: A lot of people say Four Corners and they - thereís only three.

John Foley: Thereís only three.

Foster Carlow: But actually itís still a town road. Itís discontinued.

John Foley: Oh, it is. Ok.

Foster Carlow: Remember Jimmy Davis - the Comprehensive Planning Committee - wanted to sell out?

John Foley: I know he wanted to get rid of some of the - - -

Foster Carlow: Well, see if - if - if he buys us out on it, then weíre responsible for it.

John Foley: Oh, I see. Ok. Yes, right, you have to keep up - - -

Foster Carlow: See, the thing is if I sell land out here or start creating house lots or a division - sub-division down there, then the town has to keep it up. Right now, the town, all theyíve got to do is like legally - yes, the road washed out and was impassible to get to the fields to get your berries out, the town would have to fix it up just to get your berries out.

John Foley: Donít have to hot top it or anything.

Foster Carlow: So, if I went half way down and built a house, then theyíd have to build the road - legally and stuff, that way. So, thatís what theyíre - I think afraid of - is these old discontinued roads, if you started selling house lots or something or someone built, then theyíve got to declare it, build it up, pave it, and put it up to todayís standard and of course it would cost the town a lot of money. I mean, if I sold you or one of your daughters or someone a lot and they built a house down there, the town is responsible for it. Theyíve got to plow it, sand it, build it up, ditch it, pave it and stuff, so - - -

John Foley: Itís a big expense when you get - a lot of work into doing that.

Foster Carlow: So, Jimmy wanted to - to - thereís only a few that own land down there so he offered you a deal. Weíll give you so much and - and give it to you.

John Foley: Your own road - private road. Yes.

Foster Carlow: Right. I mean so if I - I said Iíll sign off of it being the town road, weíll give you $5,000 each or whatever or $10,000 or whatever they decide doing. Well, it would be cheaper for us to pay them off to not come back on us than to fix it.

John Foley: Yes, yes, I can see that. Well, youíre going to have enough to do around, I guess, with your - your activities and stuff so you - you have an interest - youíre basically in mechanical things. I know you fix up trucks and stuff like that and you - you work for different people - individuals - work on trucks and stuff?

Foster Carlow: Yes, some. Well in the past, of course I worked at the Chevrolet garage and the Mobil station in Eastport and I did work for around eight years for Jack Smith on and off. On his equipment. Of course he just - it was just self employed that way. I wasnít on payroll. I mean he paid you for whatever work you done and then you got your 1099 at the end of the year. But, you werenít on the payroll

John Foley: You werenít like a full time worker.

Foster Carlow: I mean he called you when he wanted you. You only worked - I mean he called up and said I got a truck broke down, come and fix it. You went and fixed it and he paid you. And, at the end of the year, heíd give you a statement for whatever work you done but you wasnít on a payroll or an employee actually. It was like a sub-let type thing.

John Foley: So, that must keep you busy. You - as far as the mechanical things, is that your hobby or do you have other hobbies or interests or things that you do?

Foster Carlow: Just about anything.

John Foley: Just about anything. I know. Like drawings, into the historical society, and the wood lots and stuff like that.

Foster Carlow: No, Iíve done a little bit everything in the past. Carpenter work, welding, clearing brush, cutting wood, blueberries, mechanic work, mow lawns.

John Foley: (indistinct words) Thereís always something to do. The brush is always growing, for sure.

Foster Carlow: Thereís always something to do around and - and the hard thing now is getting somebody to work.

John Foley: Yes, oh yes, thatís right. And so like the blueberries, do have trouble getting rakers, or not?

Foster Carlow: No, not really. I usually have the same ones.

John Foley: Ok, so you get people you know.

Foster Carlow: And now, itís getting so you get machines and stuff to do a lot of it.

John Foley: Do a lot, yes. So, your fields, can you do with machines?

Foster Carlow: Both of them.

John Foley: Oh, yes.

Foster Carlow: Yes. I lease some out so they take care of it. Between - like I used to have my own lot - the Gregory Ham place, and then I got my grandparentsí place and another one and I just canít handle all - all three places. So, I - I lease the other ones out and they pay you so much a year for leasing it and they take care of it. So, instead of letting it grow up or go to pieces, you handle it - you can handle it.

John Foley: Ok, so now, this Ray Bohanonís lot, you that have down in back of Seilerís place. Now, thereís one coming this way that used to be McPheterís house - McPheterís field - this side of (indistinct name). Is that yours, too?

Foster Carlow: No, no. Actually I think thatís how weíre related.

John Foley: How youíre connected to the Bohannons?

Foster Carlow: The Bohannons, because itís something to do with McPheters on my grandfatherís side. Theyíre related somehow that way is how itís connected, but Iím not sure exactly how.

John Foley: I took a walk down there and saw the old grave site. Thereís a grave site down by an old cellar hole way down in that field John showed me.

Foster Carlow: Used to be some graves down here, they dug up in the field down here.

John Foley: Oh yes, yes? So, who was that? It must have been some - - -

Foster Carlow: I donít know. There were only one or two down there and you can see - itís still dug up - itís out there in the field. When you rake it thereís a hollow - itís dug out - itís seeded now.

John Foley: Now, they put them over in the cemetery, then I guess. Whoever it was.

Foster Carlow: I donít know if they put them in the cemetery or moved them to another homestead or something.

John Foley: Another place.

Foster Carlow: I donít know if Johnís had you down below by Plattís place.

John Foley: No.

Foster Carlow: Theyíve got four or five stones down there on - used to be Clarkís and my line.

John Foley: Oh, ok. (indistinct words) Iíll have to go back. Iím kind of interested in these old places.

Foster Carlow: Heís got them all marked out and trails and everything to them

John Foley: Well, letís see now. Youíre - are you - as far as your relatives go, are you the only one of your family thatís still here? Your two sisters moved away, you said.

Foster Carlow: Well, Bonnieís in Eastport.

John Foley: Eastport, yes, yes.

Foster Carlow: And, Vickieís in North Carolina. Sheís been there since mainly she graduated. She married a guy from South China, Maine and he joined the Marines. Thatís where the base is down there.

John Foley: Ok, so heís - so heís in the service.

Foster Carlow: Of course, I joke around a lot so when people usually ask me, I tell them she married a guy from China.

John Foley: Well, there - itís right. Youíre not lying. Itís China - a different - a different kind of China.

Foster Carlow: It gets them all excited at first. Well, actually South China.

John Foley: South China, yes. Itís still around here, yes, yes.

Foster Carlow: Itís down around Augusta way.

John Foley: Yes.

Foster Carlow: No, they got married - she got married right out of high school at the end of the year. She was in high school and he was going to the VCI taking the heavy equipment. Thatís how they met. Then he joined the Marines and they got married and moved down there and been there ever since.

John Foley: So, how long has he been in the service?

Foster Carlow: Oh, that must have been around late Ď80s.

John Foley: Usually itís about four years. Probably heís been - heís re-upped or they - - -

Foster Carlow: Actually - actually he just got out. I think it was last year.

John Foley: And, then went back in, or no?

Foster Carlow: Then he went in the Reserves.

John Foley: Yes, yes, yes. But, you figure the Reserves nowadays, you can get called up next week, you know. I guess itís something you have to adjust to anyway. Yes, well, I - trying to think of other things about Alexander. Now, youíre connected to the - what do you think about the community - about the way people, I donít know, act toward each other and stuff. I - I know different people, Iíve mentioned - whatís - is there something special about Alexander and the people? Do you think there is or not or?

Foster Carlow: I think overall there is.

John Foley: Yes. What do you think? What - what about - - -

Foster Carlow: Well, most of them are just mainly down to earth and help you out and stuff like that. Any town or any city has good and bad in all, but overall itís a nice place. And, Iím sure that thereís other places just like it that weíve never been, and if you were born and raised there, youíd like it. I mean, there are some places that people are born and raised and they canít leave but they donít want to be there.

John Foley: Yes, thatís right. Theyíre miserable there anyway, and - - -

Foster Carlow: No, I mean overall - - -

John Foley: People are - a number of people have mentioned how helpful people are. You know, they donít butt in and bother people but on the other hand if somebody needed some help and you know, theyíd consider it. Like Marian - people concerned about her and she was sick and stuff like that and a lot of different people would, you know, wish her well - check in on her and stuff like that.

Foster Carlow: Itís nice and you can (indistinct words) and donít worry about people bothering things, really. Youíd think if someone bothers something around, itíd always be someone passing through or - or someone new.

John Foley: And, they leave equipment around. You can - you can leave stuff out and not worry about locking up everything.

Foster Carlow: I never do.

John Foley: You never do. No, me neither. (indistinct words) I hardly lock the door ever.

Foster Carlow: I donít - I donít lock up.

John Foley: I figure if somebody comes in, they come in and help themselves and so they donít trash anything, you know.

Foster Carlow: The keys are in the vehicles. I lock - the only time I lock the vehicles is at night and thatís it. I mean, if they want to break in, theyíre going to break in anyway.

John Foley: Thatís what I think.

Foster Carlow: But, the only thing I can say if they do it while Iím here, itíll be the last time.

John Foley: Well, I think most of us - weíre praying, you know. We know you canít just get on the phone and call for help. Youíve got to help yourself, you know - got to protect yourself. Youíve got to be a little ready. I think that the community - what about the scenery and stuff like that?

Foster Carlow: I love the view.

John Foley: You do. So, are you hot for hunting and fishing or what. Or are you too busy? You seem like youíre working a lot.

Foster Carlow: Well, yes and no. Fishing, I hate. I donít like fish and I donít like fishing. I donít like seafood and I fished a few times, but I usually go with friends and they usually invite me to go, get all the food, all the equipment and I go and catch all the fish and eat all the food and leave and they donít invite me back.

John Foley: Well, thatís as good a way of doing it as any, you know.

Foster Carlow: Hunting, I like because I like ducks and I like shooting them.

John Foley: Bird hunting or deer hunting?

Foster Carlow: Iím going to say mainly deer - used to be - not so much now because I donít like any of it. I donít like deer. I donít like moose. I donít like the wild taste, but I started out eight years old shooting them (indistinct words) and thatís how I started mainly. Of course everyone always hunted. Even being raised on a farm I never liked it. If you had a raised beef, I donít like it. Itís got that funny taste to it. Iíd rather have a store boughten steak.

John Foley: Well, if I had the critter to feed and talk to every day, Iíd kind of be sorry come time to eat the thing, you know. I mean itís been your friend and then youíre going to put it on the table. It would taste a little different, I would think. But, I guess people got used to that and they understood it.

Foster Carlow: I never had that problem.

John Foley: Yes, I - so youíd rather buy it in the store.

Foster Carlow: No, I mean, we shot the deer and stuff. I have birds - hunted for like friends and relatives and give it to them and stuff and like young, but the last ten years I havenít shot really anything.

John Foley: Yes, I have guns, too, and I think - something came over with destroying stuff. Iíd shoot it and then Iíd want to be chasing them around. Iíve got enough apple trees to let the deer have some and I could have some. But, thereís a lot of opportunities in the lakes and stuff, with canoeing, you know, boating and swimming.

Foster Carlow: But, no - they have some really nice spots in - in town and I probably have two of the best ones.

John Foley: Yes. Well, youíve got a good high spot here.

Foster Carlow: Well, this isnít my favorite. This is where Iíve always been.

John Foley: Ok, whatís your favorite?

Foster Carlow: The Ray Bohanon place.

John Foley: The Ray Bohanon place. I have to get into that field. So, thatís where - your road, really and if you went down in back of Seilerís house and just kept walking down to that corner, youíd get to it eventually.

Foster Carlow: If you were right in the middle of her field, itís maybe from here to the motel to the wood and youíre in my field. Actually most of the woods coming up through is mine. Thereís only a short piece of woods.

John Foley: So, the edge of the - Seilerís or Eddyís field down there where the woods starts, is that where your land starts? Right about there?

Foster Carlow: Yes.

John Foley: Ok, all right. So, I learned something today. I just figured - I know Eddy had it on the other side of the road up to my land and I figured he probably had some more, but I never thought about who owned on the other side of Dave Paltz.

Foster Carlow: Every year I take the tractor over and leave it to do the bush hogging on the fields. I can walk from my back field up through that woods, up across (indistinct name) field and over Route Nine to here in twenty minutes.

John Foley: Oh, yes. Probably closer for me. (indistinct words) Thatís pretty interesting. Now are there any old cellar holes down in there, or not?

Foster Carlow: At least two that I know of.

John Foley: Oh, no kidding. Iím always curious. I take my camera and take pictures of everything. Iíll have to get over there. I know some of these places are really pretty ice for (indistinct words) early.

Foster Carlow: But, if I had my choice of having just one place, Iíd have a log cabin up there.

John Foley: Now, is there a right of way - is there a road going in? Thereís no road going in, huh?

Foster Carlow: Oh, yes.

John Foley: Ok, from Seilerís?

Foster Carlow: No, farmhouse on the Arm Road. Do you remember where McGoons lived?

John Foley: Yes.

Foster Carlow: Remember where Eric McGoon lived?

John Foley: Yes.

Foster Carlow: And, Mike lives there now. The driveway right across from it is mine.

John Foley: Oh, the driveway right across from it, ok.

Foster Carlow: See, go (indistinct words) hill and take a right.

John Foley: Take a right, yes.

Foster Carlow: You go over and turn left and itís your first right.

John Foley: Ok, go to the County Road and turn right. Oh no, thatís not what they call the Huff Road.

Foster Carlow: They may have.

John Foley: No, the Huff Road is on this side of Seilerís. Itís over on this side.

Foster Carlow: This - this used to be the - the old - actually the old Arm Road. Because that came over - over from the Crawford - the Crawford Road.

John Foley: Yes, right, ok. Yes. So you go down (indistinct word) Davis Road to the bottom there.

Foster Carlow: Yes, and turn right.

John Foley: And turn right, and then you go a little ways and then turn right again or do you - - -

Foster Carlow: No, you go up - thereís only three houses on that - see thereís a house on your left (indistinct words) Then thereís another house on your left, and the big farm house on your right.

John Foley: Now, thatís - thatís - - -

Foster Carlow: Williams.

John Foley: Williams, yes.

Foster Carlow: So thatís - when you come to - you either turn right in their driveway or you turn left onto the Arm Road. The upper Arm Road. And, then youíve got McGoonís on your left and right across from McGoonís on the left is a dirt driveway.

John Foley: Oh, ok. So, if I wanted to drive it, I could drive down there. Is it any good - good enough for my pickup, or - - -

Foster Carlow: Oh, yes, you can drive right down.

John Foley: Oh, yes, yes. I actually like walking around. I can see more, but I might be down there sometime. I might take a ride in there to see it. Oh, ok.

Foster Carlow: No. Itís a beautiful spot.

John Foley: Well, so you could build another place down in there, huh? Now, can you - from there, youíve got a view of Pleasant Lake and - - -

Foster Carlow: I can see Pleasant Lake. I can see Meddybemps Lake, Cooper Tower, Conan Hill down in Meddybemps. Itís a radio station and then the fire - fire tower down on Cooper Hill. You can see all that. At night you can see right up to Calais and St. Stephen. So you can see all over.

John Foley: A good spot. I donít know. But itís kind of hidden. Nobody can see it, you know, from the road. Right? Somebody - Iíve been here 30 something years and I didnít - I heard you mention and maybe somebody else mention Ray Bohanonís field, but Iíve heard and I just kind of thought it might be over here by this McPheterís place, but I guess now that you describe - describe where it is, I can pin it down. Itís next - itís practically next to my land. I donít know - Dayís goes back a ways, and Iím right next to Dayís, but - the what the heck is in back of Dayís and mine. It used to be GPís, but I guess - - -

Foster Carlow: Yes, well thereís - thereís like my land and it used to be St. Regis - St. Croix and then they sold out to GP and then thereís Dayís. Because theyíve tapped and made a road around my land when they cut off the company land. So, when you stop on the main road before the woods, thereís a trail that goes over to Dayís field. Itís a pretty spot, but I had other - other laces around.

John Foley: What other places do you think are pretty good?

Foster Carlow: Well, as far as being pretty, Iíve got a camp down on Pleasant Lake. And, itís the second best spot as far as Iím concerned on the lake.

John Foley: Now, where abouts is that? Is that on this side?

Foster Carlow: Yes, itís on this side. Itís off the Arm Road. You know where Peter Sears used to live. Well, thereís a camp where you cross from his place.

John Foley: Oh, yes. Iíve been there. In fact I used to stay there. Rollo Roger had a place down there.

Foster Carlow: Well, itís the next one going towards the Cooper Road. On your right. Perry Austin lives down there and a bunch of them.

John Foley: Yes, Iíve seen the names. I havenít been down there - Iíve rented it from Rollo for a couple of weeks, I think, when I first came up one winter. I got stuck down there in the snow a couple of times - but, no, I donít think so. Iím going back to my little shack on Route 9 where I can get out, you know.

Foster Carlow: You know where they sand bar it down there - the sandy beach on the far side - - -

TAPE TURNED OVER - SOME CONVERSATION LOST

John Foley: That must be the - well, you donít hear about fishing, though. You must have a boat or something.

Foster Carlow: No, never had a boat. Been in one very little. Donít like one. Iím not scared of them, but I never fished or nothing and had use for one, so - - -

John Foley: I donít know, Iíve been thinking of making a canoe. Iíve been telling everybody Iím making - making a canoe. I bought the cedar, but I never got around to it. But, I made a kayak and Iíve taken it out a few times. But, I kind of like making things, you know, and I get the thing made and then I take it out a few times and try it out - it floats, you know, seems nice and then I go on to something else and I never get back to the lake, you know.

Foster Carlow: Never been in a kayak, never been in a canoe.

John Foley: Yes. Never been in a canoe?

Foster Carlow: Never in a canoe.

John Foley: For somebody from Maine, thatís kind of unusual.

Foster Carlow: I may have been in a boat maybe half a dozen times in my life with people and I know how to swim and stuff, but I donít fish. I donít like fish.

John Foley: You know, to tell you the truth, I can see the good and the bad in the boating and the fishing. You get out there in the sun and the heat - itís a miserable experience. You go out early in the morning or in the evening, nice sunset or something, itís beautiful, you know. Of course youíve got a few bugs and stuff, but on the other hand, itís - itís nice, but I - I think you get out there all day - people that sit out and youíre just baked in the sun, thereís not much point to me, you know. You might as well stay home. (Indistinct words)

Foster Carlow: Another thing Iíve never used is a four-wheeler.

John Foley: You never - you donít have one?

Foster Carlow: Never had one and Iím not scared of any of them, but - - -

John Foley: You donít need one, I guess. Youíve got - - -

Foster Carlow: Well, for the price of them, you can buy a good - good tractor.

John Foley: Thatís what I was thinking. Theyíre pretty expensive.

Foster Carlow: I mean the four wheelers are really nice for around the farm. You can find a lot of use for it. But, for what you pay for it, Iíd rather have a tractor. But, as far as just going out field riding like you would on a snowmobile or motorbike - - -

John Foley: No, I donít do that either. Iíve got a four wheeler but I use it to get my wood out. I - Iíve got little trails Iíve made and Iíve got a trailer and (indistinct words) I was going to bring this wheel that I ripped the hub out of it - to ask you if it could be fixed or not. At least, Iíd show it to you, you know, and take a look at it and see what you think. Maybe when we get done I can drive home and bring it over and show you. But, anyway, thatís what I use and before that I was lugging the wood all the time and I, you know, ten cords a winter, thatís a lot of work all year long. It kept me in shape, but with the four wheeler, I can make a little trail, you know. Cut the bark and move a few rocks and fill in a few holes and I can get in there with my little trailer and get my wood out pretty good, you know, and itís not a bad thing. But, again, the foolish thing cost me $6,000.

Foster Carlow: But, no, I wouldnít mind having a four wheeler. I mean, thereís a lot of uses you can find where you canít for a tractor specially in the springtime.

John Foley: Right. Tractors are heavier and - - -

Foster Carlow: But, overall I canít see spending six or eight thousand dollars when you can buy a tractor for that.

John Foley: Now, youíve got a tractor?

Foster Carlow: Well, Iíve got two right now. Iíve got a Ď53 Farmall 8 with a bucket - wide front end and I use that for lumber and dirt - hauling things, lifting things. And, a Ď52 Ford EN with a 3 point hitch I use for bush hogging. Because the Farmall only has a two point hitch. So, Iíve got one of each and Iím considering buying a new tractor with a four by with a bucket. So, Iím in the process right now of looking around and seeing whatís available and - and thinking about maybe purchasing one.

John Foley: Well, I always thought around my place, a tractor was what Iíd want and in fact I even started saving a little money at a time and I called a tractor firm but with my kids and wife and whatever else, I was always one pay check - always something came up and I never did buy the tractor. So, eventually I bought the four wheeler. I guess it just seemed that would be all right to use.

Foster Carlow: Right now you can buy like a 28, 30 horsepower tractor for around $16,000. Theyíve been running a few ads on a couple different ones and they come with a bush hog, the bucket, the (indistinct word) blade, a (indistinct word) blade, a passing gear of 16.

John Foley: Gee, thatís pretty good.

Foster Carlow: Yes, so, I mean, Iím considering one. The only thing I donít like about buying one right now or ever, I donít have enough use for it.

John Foley: Yes, yes. Well, thatís the problem with me, too. I mean I could - Iíve got a lot of work by hand, but, you know, the brush hog - I mean thereís places that are too rocky to deal with. Youíve got to have it a little level to run the brush hog, right?

Foster Carlow: Yes. Now, you can get by with the older stuff but I mean the new stuff is a lot - lot better working, a lot quicker and easier and less time fooling around doing things, but - of course like the older Farmall tractor isnít going to lift the weight of what the new one is. Youíve got no power steering, and no - no light power. Every time you do something, youíve got to stop and put it in or out and if youíre bush hogging with the old tractor and you want to stop, the bush hog pushes you until you disengage it.

John Foley: Oh, it does. Oh jeeze. Iíve got to watch out, I guess.

Foster Carlow: So, if you come up to something and you want to stop or you get to ten feet from your truck and you push the clutch in and the bush hog is still going itís pushing you ahead.

John Foley: What do you - how do you - what do you do? How do you stop the thing?

Foster Carlow: You donít.

John Foley: You donít?

Foster Carlow: You hang on and you go for (indistinct words) of course if you know that, you can disengage it ahead of time. But, if you - if you were out there doing something and you didnít realize there was a rock or something - wasnít familiar with the area - you just canít stop when you step on the brakes and the clutch. It would be just like you having front brakes and no rear. You put on your brakes and your back keeps pushing you. You want to stop.

John Foley: You want to stop but you wear out your brake shoes is all youíre going to do.

Foster Carlow: So, like back - back in their time, it was a good tractor but now you could do three times the work with a new one and do it a lot quicker, a lot more efficient. Of course most have gone to diesel now.

John Foley: What about the Kubota tractors? Are they any good?

Foster Carlow: Most of your major brand tractors are good tractors today. But, right now it seems as though everybody is buying Kubota or John Deere around here because thatís mainly your dealers. There are a lot of off the market ones, mainly a piece of junk. They might - they might serve you or I all right if you donít use it a lot, but as far as overall - - -

John Foley: Dependability - theyíre probably not as tough.

Foster Carlow: But right now, youíve got the Case, which used to be International. Youíve got your Ford-New Holland, your John Deere, your Kubota and your Massey Ferguson. Theyíre all good. I want to be different. I want a Massey Ferguson.

John Foley: Oh, you do? Oh, yes? You must like them for some reason.

Foster Carlow: Oh, theyíre a good tractor. But, I donít know if Iím going to get one. If not, because of the price. The John Deere and the Massey Ferguson are a lot more money for the same tractor.

John Foley: Are they all about the same t work on, or not?

Foster Carlow: I would say so. Theyíre all - theyíre all Japanese. I was talking to the dealer the other day. I was calling around on prices on different tractors. Like the Massey Furguson was $4,000 more than the Kubota or Ford, or New Holland.

John Foley: Yes Same thing, same power?

Foster Carlow: Yes, everything. And the John Deere was $2,000 more than the Kubota or Ford for the same thing. So, for that kind of money, itís not worth the difference, but any one of them would work - work good, and theyíre all Japanese.

John Foley: Yes, I know John uses his Kubota thing. He was showing me how he winched out logs with that thing and - and he had a cable on it and he had it - the cable was pulling the log and he put his hand up in front of his face and I said ďWell J., what are you putting your hand up for?Ē ďWell, thatís in case the cable snaps.Ē And, I thought if that cable snaps, your arm isnít going to stop it. No, I donít think - it would take your head off, wouldnít it?

Foster Carlow: Well - - -

John Foley: If it went the wrong way. You never know.

Foster Carlow: It would do less damage.

John Foley: Yes, less - a little less damage but that cable is going to bat pretty hard. I - I - As soon as he started to pull the thing, I started to clear the path. I heard a story about some guy down in Red Beach there that had his head taken off when a cable snapped on him. (indistinct words)

Foster Carlow: Things happen - - -

John Foley: Things happen, you never know. I mean, if youíre careful and you know what youíre doing - - -

Foster Carlow: Well, you canít - - -

John Foley: You canít always tell - - -

Foster Carlow: Thereís no way for a cable, I mean, itís something that doesnít happen very often. But, it can happen. And, it doesnít matter how safety oriented you are or who you are.

John Foley: Thatís right, if youíre in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Foster Carlow: But, things happen that you donít - would never expect. I remember that there - probably ten or twelve years ago now, that guy that got killed on the Airline with a fan blade.

John Foley: What was that? I donít remember.

Foster Carlow: There was a guy from Woodland and there was something wrong with his car and he stopped and popped the hood and one of the blades broke off and took him in the throat or neck. So, I mean, if I went out and popped the hood on your truck and the blade broke off and itís - itís welded or riveted on and it just - just let go.

John Foley: Yes, thatís just bad luck, yes, yes.

Foster Carlow: I mean, nothing you can do for that. I mean if you stuck your hand down in the fan or something, then - - -

John Foley: Youíre to blame.

Foster Carlow: Thatís your fault. No, he popped it up and it just happened to fly off and took him right in the neck or throat and he bled to death. There were two or three right there when it happened in the vehicle but nothing you could do for that.

John Foley: Couldnít do anything. No, no. Like the chain saw. Youíve got to be careful with that thing. I put mine into my leg once and Iím sore a little bit from that. No matter how careful you are, but youíve still - probably do it when youíre not tired and not overdo things or something. Well, your cats seem pretty entertained, I must say. They seem to be - - -

Foster Carlow: Theyíre good girls.

John Foley: Are they? Yes, they seem to be.

Foster Carlow: They keep an eye on the place and keep me in line.

John Foley: Yes, well, they seem to be kind of playful. Are they the same age? Or not?

Foster Carlow: Same age. Sisters.

John Foley: Sisters. Oh, ok. Thatís pretty good

Foster Carlow: Theyíre about two years old right now.

John Foley: Oh. Are they.

Foster Carlow: And, never been outside.

John Foley: Never - oh yes, yes.

Foster Carlow: Never been outside - love to play. Wouldnít even offer to go outside if you opened the door or window.

John Foley: Well, the coyotes and stuff. Weíve lost more cats. We lost one a few weeks ago. And, I donít know how many Daveís lost. Heís got so many that they come over and visit us but theyíre always different and I think he must lose them every week. But, we had a couple go and so after that my wife and daughter said - you know, thereís no way - weíre not - any cats weíve got are going to stay in the house. So, weíve got ten since and they never - well, take them out and hold them on the front lawn or something but bring them right back in. But, those two and we had a third one, Oliver, heís missing a few teeth from fights heís been in and heís been going out for years. And he - I thought he was pretty clever and pretty careful. He lasted, you know, twelve years old, you know, but heís out there hunting something and something is hunting him and heís not looking over his shoulder, but he didnít come back for two weeks and usually heís back every day.

Foster Carlow: Itís hard with a hawk or eagle. Iíve got a hawk around here. Itís been around here this year.

John Foley: Oh, really. Looking for them? Yes?

Foster Carlow: And, - no, no, looking for anything. Yes. Itís been sitting on the wire out here and the wire across the road and - the other day I was out to the corner trailer, changing the oil in the car and I heard a big crash out in these apple trees. It sounded like a bear - tramping when they run. And, all I could hear was just - just flapping down there or whatever in - in the bushes. And, apparently a hawk come over this squirrelsí house so he had been sitting up there on the wire watching the squirrels and flew down in and it was so thick, he was trying to get back out (indistinct words)

John Foley: Plenty of squirrels around. Well, thatís the thing, my cat was out there hunting the squirrels. (Indistinct words) also was hunting him. But thereís been coyotes and foxes - I donít know if a fox would kill a good sized cat. I guess they could.

Foster Carlow: Oh, yes. A fox could.

John Foley: My wife saw a fox the next day with a rabbit wandering around our field and I thought ďMy God! Defenceless.Ē Itís happened before. We lost a cat and a couple of days - mornings later I saw this fox prowling around and I said ďOh, my God! Thatís where the cat went.Ē

Foster Carlow: But, no - I really didnít want a cat, but Iím glad Iíve got them now.

John Foley: Well, theyíre good company. To me, cats, I donít think bother. They - you know, theyíre pretty clean and they - they sleep a lot and they, you know, theyíre not - you can go away for a few days, too, if you left enough food for them. They wouldnít be like a dog, you know, that have trouble taking care of themselves.

Foster Carlow: No, no, theyíre good company and love to play. And, I wasnít for getting them but I didnít have much choice. Some of them that had them wanted to shoot them. Couldnít get rid of them. And, every time I went into the peopleís places, theyíd both come over to me from the time they was born and crawl up your pant leg and play and stuff, so they tried to give them away and couldnít get rid of all the cats and they were going to shoot them, so I said ďWell, if youíre going to shoot them, Iíll take them.Ē So. thatís how I got them. But, theyíre really good clean cats, because I just have to (indistinct words) I bought it used - and I wanted to do a little work - (indistinct words) fixed up and I didnít want a cat digging it so I just said Iíll leave the trim the way it is.

John Foley: Well, weíve got a couple cedar - Iíve got like a cedar door frame and stuff - youíll have to come over to my house some time. I built it myself. But, anyway, itís cedar. Itís kind of nice for cats to scratch. And, theyíve been scratching. Well, there was one door - actually two cedar - and theyíve scratched for years - couple of my cats and they - they basically put a hole in it and this - this piece of wood on the side of the wall (indistinct words) now, I mean, it looks awful. Itís all shredded. (indistinct words) worn right through. But, they like to scratch. Thatís their only thing. But, my wife goes down to that vet - she took the other cat to - the one thatís gone now down there - and then she gets this hard luck story because theyíve got some poor kitten thatís been orphaned or abused or who knows what, you know - left out in the rain and anyway she went down there and got this hard luck story and brought this little kitten home. Heís turned out to be a nice little cat. Next time she went down - another hard luck story, but this cat had three legs. Just had been operated on - had half its fur cut. She brought the poor thing home. I looked at the thing. The fur is all out of it. Three legs. Couldnít even stand up - the poor thing - of course it was still under the anesthesia or something. I said ďThat cat ainít going to make it. That cat - we might as well just put it out of its misery, the poor thing.Ē She said ďWell weíll give it a few days and see what happens.Ē And the poor cat - I mean, finally the fur started to grow - you know - in fact I never saw a cat when its ears were flat down. It couldnít even hold its ears up, it was so bad. Finally that cat - its fur started growing - it started getting - the only thing is it kept forgetting it was missing - missing that leg and it started going back on that side and falling over and start to meow like crazy because it didnít understand, you know, why its leg was gone. But anyway, apparently somebody beat it up or kicked it around and they had to amputate the leg - was what happened. But anyway, that cat came back and got stronger and healthier and the fur all growing up and he began to chase this one that just got caught by the fox or the coyotes or something. It was much bigger - twice as big as him -an older cat - lived in the house all its life. He was chasing him all around - wouldnít even let him in. I think he just wanted to play, but on the other hand, he recovered completely and he - he - the only thing is when he runs fast, since heís lopsided, he goes to one side - kind of side winding, but he doesnít let it hold him back. Heís got so - such long fur on his paws, he tries running up the stairs and theyíre wood and slippery and he - you know, that fur, he canít get a good grip and he slips and falls some times but he bangs around (indistinct words). It doesnít seem to bother him. Pretty decent cat.

Foster Carlow: No, these ones here have always been in the house and they have the run of the house so they never want to go out.

John Foley: So I see. They seem pretty comfortable.

Foster Carlow: They donít bother anything.

John Foley: But, theyíre good and friendly.

Foster Carlow: Oh yes.

John Foley: Yes, theyíre not - - -

Foster Carlow: Yes. Iíve had folks here - the other day, they said, ďWhat are you doing?Ē I said, ďIím looking for the welcome mat on - on my back.Ē ďWell, how come?Ē I said, ďThe cats are walking all over me.Ē

John Foley: Well, they feel pretty comfortable with you, Foster. Well, I donít know - is there anything else you want to add about Alexander or the community or what do you think about it - or? Your reaction toward stuff. You never thought of going anywhere. You said youíre happy to be here - to stay here and never thought of heading out to someplace else.

Foster Carlow: Well, I havenít been too far away in my life. I have been like to Massachusetts a few times. Iíve been to Kentucky, Alabama and Montana once. Iíve got some friends (indistinct words) and I do have like 29 acres and two log cabins out in Montana.

John Foley: You do? How did you come by that? Is that - did you buy that or - - -

Foster Carlow: No, well some of my friends that like me and stuff and - and more or less give it to you.

John Foley: No kidding.

Foster Carlow: So, I was out there once to see it when I got it and thatís probably the last time Iíll be there, but - but for the deal you couldnít pass it up. But, they like me more for me having it and stuff and - and practically give it to you so I took it and - and you canít go wrong. Iíll probably never use it but Iíve got it.

John Foley: Youíve got enough to do here, I guess - enough closer things.

Foster Carlow: Yes, so other than like I said - other than when I have to go somewhere, I donít go much.

John Foley: Iím the same way. I have to go back and visit the relatives down in Massachusetts. My parents are dead but my brothers and sisters - a couple of them are down there - and cousins and nieces and Patís relatives, too. So, we go down once a year but itís like a - like a duty, you know, and weíve got to do it, so we go visit and a couple days and weíre happy to get back to Maine.

Foster Carlow: Itís like here in the summer time. I mean if you think the borderís bad a few days of the year with the Canadian traffic and stuff like the festival week there they had all the water tied up down there. I donít know if you went to it or not.

John Foley: I didnít go near it.

Foster Carlow: But, I was there one day during the festival and to go down to the main bridge, you went back up to the Sandwich Man. And, it was back up to Down East Pizza for them going across the Milltown bridge. (Indistinct words) you had to go back roads because you couldnít go anywhere. And, one of my friends that works at Radio Shack went to Burger King for lunch. It took him 45 minutes to get there.

John Foley: (Laughter and indistinct words)

Foster Carlow: Just to get there.

John Foley: Thatís funny. He could have walked there in a couple of minutes.

Foster Carlow: If theyíd known that, they would have walked.

John Foley: Sure. Right. Oh, yes. Well, thatís the way it is in Boston all the time - you know in Massachusetts, I mean, thereís so many cars.

Foster Carlow: Iíve got a friend in Virginia right now, she working for the summer and stuff down there. She says in some places you sit like - and sit and sit and it takes you an hour, an hour and a half to go nowhere. Really.

John Foley: Yes, really. When they have a jam, it isnít that you wait just a few minutes, you could wait for hours and, you know, run out of gas for Christ sakes sitting there.

Foster Carlow: I know one of the girls that I graduated with from high school, she works - she works down in Massachusetts at one of the hospitals down there. She said she can see the hospital from her place and it takes an hour and 10 minutes to get there and an hour and 10 minutes to get back.

John Foley: Well, you really are better off. You can take the public transportation or walk to some of the places, but some of them, you canít - thereís no way you can walk. Thereís no sidewalks, you know, but you really - a automobile in the middle of the city is sometimes a real pain in the neck, you know.

Foster Carlow: And, Iím not sure weíll ever - you have Portland and Lewiston and stuff, I mean, some places where you going to put one.

John Foley: Thatís right, yes.

Foster Carlow: You get down around Portland, a lot of places people down there, thereís no place to park. They all walk to work. Here we can park anywhere.

John Foley: Well, thatís what I like. I went into Bohannonís. I was going to get an inspection sticker there a couple of weeks ago. I pulled into the driveway - you know, in front of the garage there. I just stopped up near the pumps and walked over and Margie wasnít there but Dave Irving from the high school. I used to work with - he said ďWhat are you doing leaving that thing parked like that? Youíre not out on the farm now.Ē I said, ďWell, there didnít look like there was too much going on I figured.Ē But, I was thinking, yes, you know, out here you park where you please, you know. Whatís the big deal, you know. You donít have a bunch of lines to worry about, you know, but you can enjoy yourself, but anyway.

Foster Carlow: Relatively free and quiet stuff. Of course, probably 20 years from not it will be big cities.

John Foley: Oh, well you never know. It keeps developing. I know thereís more people now than when you were a kid, I bet, you know.

Foster Carlow: Oh, yes, a lot more.

John Foley: How about knowing people? There must be a lot of new people moved in.

Foster Carlow: Oh, thereís a lot more that I donít know. I mean I donít go around sight seeing or visiting if I donít work or do something for them, or whatever. And, I - I know thatís someoneís down there but you donít know who. I donít go around trying to find out. I mean if you was like the selectmen or on the assessing board, then youíd need more - that way. Youíd have to know who owned what and all that. No, thereís a lot of them come and go and you know people are there but you donít know who they are.

John Foley: You - you must work for some of these people. Do you, or not? Or mostly other people around or - - -

Foster Carlow: Well, not too many.

John Foley: Not too many.

Foster Carlow: Because Iíve got more work than I can handle now with the ones Iíve got. Because I work alone, so - makes it hard. And if you hire anyone else out, itís going to cost you an arm and a leg.

John Foley: Itís not going to pay, yes. Itís better to do it yourself.

Foster Carlow: I know, Iíve had friends that wanted me to teach their kids how to be - be mechanics - do mechanic work and they want - well they want to cut wood or this and that and they want to go out and get full price for everything they do - to train them, and - and, you canít do that.

John Foley: Thereís no way you can do that and make any money. I mean, itís - itís like - - -

Foster Carlow: And, then if they do it wrong and youíre responsible for them.

John Foley: Oh, yes. Thatís right. If they get hurt or something - jeeze, that wouldnít be too good. Yes.

Foster Carlow: Well now, letís say - letís say I hired your daughter to go over and do mechanic work and I give her $15.00 an hour and she changed the oil in your truck and the drain plug falls out oil (indistinct word) falls off because she didnít tighten it and put it in right and the motor goes.

John Foley: Then youíve got to pay for my motor, eh? Somebodyís got to.

Foster Carlow: So, what I - I say if youíve got to hold their hand through everything they do and watch them do it and pay them, youíre not getting paid and if they screw up anything, youíve got to pay for it.

John Foley: Thatís right. Thatís not a good deal.

Foster Carlow: I mean if they want to go over there and work for free or something and watch you do stuff and learn how to do it - - -

John Foley: Help you out, thatís something.

Foster Carlow: - - - and then go on their own or something, fine.

John Foley: Yes. Yes. Well, if they want to get the training, they could go to the vocational school or whatever - go in a program, thatís what they need to do.

Foster Carlow: Right, but what they want - they want you to pay them for nothing - - -

John Foley: Yes, thatís right.

Foster Carlow: (Indistinct words)

John Foley: Yes, thatís not much of a deal at all.

Foster Carlow: But - no, if you do that, youíre going to put yourself further behind because youíve got to be breathing down their neck for everything they do.

John Foley: Yes, it would be slower. You wouldnít be able to get things done. Well - - -

Foster Carlow: But, it (indistinct words) someone else that just wants to do it, but you canít do it for a lifetime.

John Foley: Well, Iíd like to try to figure out how to do stuff myself, but not having too much experience in a lot of - in a lot of stuff - itís all new. Iíve gone - like Iíve changed the clutch in my old truck, there. Iíd never changed a clutch in my life, you know, before I did that, but I, you know, I had the book out and I took my time and, you know, tried to figure things out - the only thing is I didnít have a good way - I didnít - put the - the transmission on the transmission shaft and I didnít have anything like that. So, I was putting blocks under it and hoisting it up and trying to line it up - pretty messy job. I finally got it in there. But, my oldest daughter was watching me and I was laying there with the - with the rust in my face and everything else - with the grease all over me and I says, ďYou know, Kaitlyn, I donít care what you want to do with your life but think twice before you become a mechanic.Ē But, I was thinking in a shop, youíve got it on a lift, you know. Youíve got the things to support what you need. Youíre not on your back in the garage, there - on the ground, you know - - -

Foster Carlow: Thatís why I became a mechanic.

John Foley: Why?

Foster Carlow: I donít know - my grandmother used to say, ďCouldnít you find a cleaner job than that?Ē (Indistinct words) filthy rich.

John Foley: Well, youíre getting right in the middle of it, you know. I kind of like fixing stuff and have it work, you know. That truck with that axle - I got that all put back together and that thing shifted right, I said ďMy God, I did it,Ē you know and ďMy God,Ē and nobody ever showed me and I just tried to puzzle it out but, you know, you take your time and trying to figure things but you do get into things that you donít know or you donít know - like Tim Sanford told me when I was talking to him about doing things - gee, you know if you have a little kidsí wagon - a little wagon and you put that in and you put - gee, I never thought of that. I was putting these blocks - but the trouble with lifting it up and then moving it in, you know, at the same time. But, anyway, itís - yes, little tricks that people learn over the years.

Foster Carlow: Big hammer or a cutting torch.

John Foley: I donít have a cutting torch. Thatís the one thing I donít have. But, I guess - Iíve got a few things - I think- keep bending the saws off to cut some things.

Foster Carlow: Yes, but it doesnít help when you have to heat stuff up (indistinct words)

John Foley: Yes, well, I just use a little propane torch to get a bolt off or something like that, but I - I want to do some - I want to learn a little bit of blacksmithing. Thatís what Iíd like to get into. I was talking to Fletcher Perkins about that stuff and I thought Iíd build a little place, you know, and have a little way I could heat up the forge, you know, heat stuff up. Weíll see. Iíve got a lot of hobbies going. I get going in this directions or that direction. I get nothing done, you know. Anyway, you donít have anything else to add? I can shut this off, I guess, then.

Foster Carlow: I guess thatís it.

John Foley: All right, Iíll shut it off.

END OF TAPE